26 replies to this topic

[Darkness]

According to papyrus, Jesus was married and may have had at least one female disciple.
http://www.nytimes.c...-wife.html?_r=1

[Caulfield]

It's certainly an interesting find. The claims are not new though the find is.

" She repeatedly cautioned that this fragment should not be taken as proof that Jesus, the historical person, was actually married. The text was probably written centuries after Jesus lived, and all other early, historically reliable Christian literature is silent on the question, she said."

The note of a true scholar right there. I can understand the controversy of female disciples to the Roman and Orthodox churches, but what is written in the bible as well as other historical texts show that there were many female disciples and church leaders in early Christianity.

[Rhuen]

and Jesus as a Jewish man it would be odd if he hadn't married.

[Arawan]

Then again, Jesus didn't exactly strictly keep to what a Jewish man of the time would be doing.

[Darkness]

Does it matter as a blow to your faith in some way, as a Christian, whether Jesus was married or not?

[Rhuen]

I wouldn't think so, if anything it shows that as my mother would say (The spirit is divine but the body is human). I mean he breathed, he ate, he shat, the Bible naturally would only focus on the big deal teachings stuff and martye aspects. I think the image of Jesus was actually more wronged than helped by the church and artists across the centuries focusing on the infalible divinity part and projecting how they viewed 'infalible" onto him.

I would think people would be thrilled to learn that their cosmic overlord took upon its self to live as a human, to experience human life, and thus likely gain a better understanding of the human condition. Notice it wasn't going around smiting people left and right, having people killed, ect...just for being disobediant, its almost like it learned human suffering and to appreciate what its (followers) go through. Makes one wander if this age of none-interference (no more nukeing cities and plagues with prophets) letting humans find their own way.

[Caulfield]

Does it matter as a blow to your faith in some way, as a Christian, whether Jesus was married or not?

No

[Arawan]

Does it matter as a blow to your faith in some way, as a Christian, whether Jesus was married or not?

No, on a fundamental level nothing really changes. But there is something to be said about trying to be accurate about His life. So far, the four canonical Gospels are the oldest, written in living memory of Jesus, and that being considered would lend credence to the idea of those being the most accurate.

[passingover]

People have a tendency to desire to rewrite or reinterpret things in the way which is most convenient for them at any given moment. Overall it's usually the powers that be at the time who win out with this. So if the leaders at the/over time wanted to minimize the role of women these would be the views which would win out with others being buried.

Though I do not know, I wouldn't be surprised if there were some truth to it given history and human nature. It makes sense to keep a somewhat open mind if truth is a goal.

[FallingSpider]

Does it matter as a blow to your faith in some way, as a Christian, whether Jesus was married or not?

I never understood this, why it mattered. Now as an adult looking at this issue I can see multiple ways of looking at this question, and I still don't see why it matters unless you take the Victorian moral view on the subject.

[Arawan]

I never understood this, why it mattered. Now as an adult looking at this issue I can see multiple ways of looking at this question, and I still don't see why it matters unless you take the Victorian moral view on the subject.

Victorian era people weren't allowed to get married?O.o

[Caulfield]

I think she means the Augustinian view - that sex was the original sin.

[Arawan]

I think she means the Augustinian view - that sex was the original sin.

I guess but even Augustinian saw marriage as an exception.

[Caulfield]

I guess but even Augustinian saw marriage as an exception.

Well, he saw sex in marriage for the purpose of having children as an unfortunate but necessary evil.

[Arawan]

Well, he saw sex in marriage for the purpose of having children as an unfortunate but necessary evil.

He saw sex between married couples as the "natural good of marriage". Many who hold Christian beliefs, this to include myself, view this as the main reason for marriage. A marriage designed against having children is not truly marriage and violates the covenant under which the married agreed to live.

[Caulfield]

He saw sex between married couples as the "natural good of marriage". Many who hold Christian beliefs, this to include myself, view this as the main reason for marriage. A marriage designed against having children is not truly marriage and violates the covenant under which the married agreed to live.

So, the marriage between Christ an the Church is not truly marriage and violates the covenant under which we agree to live?

And I stand by my previous statement regarding Augustine's views of sex.

[Arawan]

The marriage between Christ and the Church did produce children, what do you call the followers, saints, prophets and clergy?

[Caulfield]

The marriage between Christ and the Church did produce children, what do you call the followers, saints, prophets and clergy?

The bride, otherwise known as The Church.

[FallingSpider]

yes Caulfield, that's what I meant. That particular view of sex has colored how America relates to sex, and I think the assumption that Jesus never sined is taken to mean he never had sex.

[Rhuen]

Ask around if people think Jesus ever would shit or piss and you will get a mixed reaction (mostly because its something they never thought of)

Jesus was a physical person, he shat, he pissed, pretty sure he got erections. If he never once wacked off or had sex I would hardly consider him to have been a man. This "son of God" might as well have just projected as a flaming halo if he never actually "lived" as a man.