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Religion in reality

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#1 Vanok

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 10:32 PM

Based on what seems to be the peek in every subject of philosophers and there esoteric belief system,there is a bend to every country's culture and perspective on what seems to be virtual reality.This is what i will say my friends,close minded people will never be successful or appreciate the fact that all religion cause controversy just to keep the world in alignment.Religion is bias on a basis of two concepts being mutal but contradict.Think about it like this,the closest thing to a god is an alien unless your stateing life force/energy.

#2 Caulfield

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 02:50 AM

Do you consider observation to be the highest form of understanding reality?

#3 Vanok

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 11:45 AM

No,that would make me a atheist,but,the facts are there.Religion has always been man kinds downfall,but is also what keeps most of us alive...Faith.But altogether ill put it like this,do you really think reality its self stands on one cultures outlooks or so called belief,does it not sound better to say there were higher beings that created us rather than one man.Even if it was one man,there was always someone before him.Also wanted to state that there is a much better understanding of virtual reality than sub-conscience oblivion,that occurs in outer body occurrence's.If your asking the highest form of reality itself,i would say the matrix itself,that conceives and disorientates those who do not understand its meaning.

Edited by Vanok, 01 September 2012 - 12:00 PM.


#4 Violette

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 10:30 PM

The understanding of a humanoid is often limited. The expansion of consciousness, awareness, is a few and far between thing. So many people have their minds entrapped in systems, institutions. It is true, religion can provide a freedom, a pseudo freedom though. At least, most religions impose boundaries. The mind is still fettered within a constraint. I believe that religion, however, is a beginning. It shows that one is drawn to the metaphysical, to something great.

Ultimately, one escapes to find a “religion” that is freeing. Exercising the Will and finding that one is a god themself is the ultimate reality. One need not bow down to Lilith or Belial…or Yahweh.

#5 Caulfield

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:00 PM

I suppose it really comes down to what you mean by religion. I get the feeling that most of what you mean by religion could well be summed up with; (NKJV)James 1:26
If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one's religion is useless.

A deceitful, boasting and useless religion of words and no action. However I try and practise the following religion:
(NKJV)James 1:27
Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

#6 Vore

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 06:10 PM

No,that would make me a atheist,but,the facts are there.Religion has always been man kinds downfall,but is also what keeps most of us alive...Faith.


How does faith keep us alive?

#7 Rhuen

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 10:11 PM

It is useful as a control mechanism over the masses preying/using a psychological imperative of the human mind to form an "us" vs "them" mentality. By creating/forcing a common ground or need among a large group the "us" becomes the mindset resulting in a decreased likely hood of the individuals turning on each other (going from family/clan too cohesive community of unrelated individuals by giving them a common ground to bond over).

It becomes tricky the more people there are, and clearly the vs aspect tends to get some strength and any little difference may become an excuse to divide and distrust.

Religion was thus a useful means to control a smaller population in isolation, regardless if used by a cosmic force or human force. In a larger society, especially one where communication can be a constant over extreme distances, I personally find it is more effective to create a "need", utilize the human condition to desire luxory to the extent it becomes a common socially recognized "need" or set it up as such; requiring diverse groups to tolerate one another as they "need" these other people to exist in order to acquire these luxuries.

Unfortunatly, you get a powder keg if those with the strong vs instinct/psychological conditioning believe (justified or not) that they can exterminate the "them" factor and retain the luxories of their modern society. The big problem here is the afterlife belief system; creating a hole in the entire system where they believe they will gain these luxories and more after death, causing a near-zero desire to view differences as needs for luxories.

#8 Caulfield

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:07 AM

How does faith keep us alive?


Well, to begin with, faith lets you breathe every breath. True, it may just as likely kill you, but without it you cease to exist pretty damn quickly.

You don't know that every pocket of gas you pass through is not tainted with fatal poisons. You don't test the air, checking each and every molecule (or at least their percentages) before breathing it in. You accept, on faith, that the air is breathable and just breathe.
I dare say you do the same with food and drink.

#9 Beorht

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:27 AM

Faith keeps us alive because there are beings in another dimension who could cause us to die if they didn't believe in us... that's actually why people die. The reason people are born is because those interdimensional beings say "I believe in humans" and clap their hands.

#10 Rhuen

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:11 AM

Well, to begin with, faith lets you breathe every breath. True, it may just as likely kill you, but without it you cease to exist pretty damn quickly.

You don't know that every pocket of gas you pass through is not tainted with fatal poisons. You don't test the air, checking each and every molecule (or at least their percentages) before breathing it in. You accept, on faith, that the air is breathable and just breathe.
I dare say you do the same with food and drink.

That is the worst example you have ever made of a faith based decision, because those arn't decisions.Faith is something you have a choice in, you don't have a choice but to breathe, in fact try to hold your breath long enough and your body will force you to take a breath regardless if what is around you is breathable.Food and drink is a social development, learned behavior. Its one of the reasons babies put everything in their mouths (other than the lips being more sensative than fingertips and instinctually a way to test the environment). We learn what is good to eat and drink by observing others, you can call that faith all you want but it is a social instinct, its only later in life that we can take a leap of faith on what is good to eat and try stuff. (doesn't end well if you trust your survival coach and they mix up a poisonous plant by accident *it has happened*)Faith is a choice, if you don't have a choice then its just a gamble and you hope it works out in your favor. Oh you can have faith it will work out, but that wont stop the train from running you over. Its like if you said I had faith gravity will still work tomarrow. No I have precedence that gravity will still work tomarrow, evidence that it will continue to work.Also just to be an ass, I don't have faith in the air being breathable, I have asthma and this area has high humidity and pollution, so I carry an inhalor around with me at all times, because I know it works from experience and medical examination, and don't trust the air not to be too low on oxygen or polluted at any given moment.

#11 Caulfield

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:19 PM

Dude, paragraphs. They're what separates the argument from the rant.

I disagree with your fundamental premise that faith is an active function of consciousness. Faith is a passive, sure conviction of the truth of a thing.

#12 Rhuen

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:17 PM

I did use paragrahs, the site has been messing up on me at times scrunching up my text for some reason.

#13 Caulfield

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:47 PM

I tell you what, I'll dress your concerns with my reasoning by using a different example.

Getting out of bed in the morning.

You make a decision to swing your legs off the bed and place your feet on the floor, then stand up, placing your full weight on the floor.

There is no proof that the floor will hold you up. Unless you have investigated whether or not the floor is structurally sound, the foundations are not compromised and the earth under them had not been undermined you are acting on faith alone. The fact that the floor has not collapsed under you before is not evidence for it continuing to bear your weight. There are too many possible variables.

This is an example of how fundamentally important faith is in all aspects of human existence. It would be completely unreasonable to verify the structural integrity of every building we enter, but to not do so is to have faith, and act from it.

In this example, you have a sure conviction of the safety of the floor (faith) based on your previous experiences (evidence for faith).

#14 Rhuen

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:14 PM

Actually I'm not, when I bought the house, before I bought the house I made it a point to examine and have examined the structure, including the floor boards. I really hate that half the house is being held up by what looks to be a jimmy rigged iron rod on a plate of wood wedged between the ground and a wood beam.

and the rest I wouldn't call faith (which is blind acceptance from how I define it) and rather go by (trust) in that the architects and building owners arn't so dumb as to half ass a structure they have to reside in. However when ever I go to work in a place my wandering eyes always analyze the structure, in fact when I take a new job my concerns are typically fire exits and tornado safety zones (none really are) Not sure why so many think the bathroom in the middle of a structure is safer than any other room, other than the whole no windows thing. I don't trust ladders to work and am very cautious with them.

But I think we've had this discussion before over the semantics of how one defines "faith, belief, or trust". I view them as very different levels coming from a base concept.

#15 Caulfield

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:37 PM

The semantics of Faith is, especially for a discussion like this, vitally important.

#16 Rhuen

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:30 PM

Lets put it this way, I trust my own judgement and experience, but I don't have faith in anything staying solid.

I go to be hoping I don't wake up dead or having burst into flames or have another attack, I don't have faith that it wont happen. I trust my experiences with this to try and figure out what triggers it so it doesn't happen, but don't have faith that it wont.

I also have a bit of paranoia, even irrationally so. Lets put it this way, you are talking to someone who carries around a memory stick with a back up of all my computer documents just in case my house burns down or broken into so I have a back up of my writings and such *which would be the hardest things to replace as I created them*.

and when I was younger I used to carry sunglasses around with me in my pocket even at night just in case I broke down, or vanished into another dimension or something at random, so I'd have them with me in the event I ended up someplace with dawn or the sun around.

I don't have faith tomarrow will ever come, I just hope that it will.

#17 TheUnknowable

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 08:00 AM

I tell you what, I'll dress your concerns with my reasoning by using a different example.

Getting out of bed in the morning.

You make a decision to swing your legs off the bed and place your feet on the floor, then stand up, placing your full weight on the floor.

There is no proof that the floor will hold you up. Unless you have investigated whether or not the floor is structurally sound, the foundations are not compromised and the earth under them had not been undermined you are acting on faith alone. The fact that the floor has not collapsed under you before is not evidence for it continuing to bear your weight. There are too many possible variables.

This is an example of how fundamentally important faith is in all aspects of human existence. It would be completely unreasonable to verify the structural integrity of every building we enter, but to not do so is to have faith, and act from it.

In this example, you have a sure conviction of the safety of the floor (faith) based on your previous experiences (evidence for faith).




faith

noun

1.confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.

2.belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.




3.belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.

4.belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.


5.a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.


In a way your example meets #1 definition, though we have actually tested it in the case of our own house. This doesn't meet the other definitions.
Rhulan's example's aren't #2, as they have evidence for them. I would say he believes it, not that he has faith in it, as belief can have evidence for it.

Edited by TheUnknowable, 18 September 2012 - 08:02 AM.


#18 Robin

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:41 PM

I suppose under the definitions described, everyone has faith when they are born to some extent. Just through experience have definitions been altered.

Faith and belief though don't go hand in hand, but I guess they don't have to coincide.

Religion as an institution has had obvious effects on the world. History has it plainly written. Though perspective is what is important to the person trying to understand it.

To me religion is more about death than it is about life. To give hope that death is not the end of all things. Of course if people could handle death being the end of all things, what need would we have for religion?

The human ego doesn't want to die so it is drawn to belief systems that say that instead of nothing, you go somewhere else after death and give you a standard to live by and rules to follow.

This in itself is not inherently evil.

If you have ever seen the movie, "The Invention of Lying" the main character in that movie discovers lying and when his mother is on her death bed, tells her that after death there isn't nothing, there is a place you go where everyone get's a mansion. To the credit of the story, the main character was doing his mother a kindness by easing her passing. Funny movie, you should go see it.

#19 Vanok

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 02:38 PM

i will agree with the (awe so inspiring) Rhuen...In fact rhuen is right.Faith is based on what seems to be a mind-control mechanism,just take the illuminati for instance.There belief system is not of religion but of historical facts conceiveing those who misinterpreted its understanding...I dont like the illuminati in most of its teachings but i agree with there philosophy and outlook and whats based as a background of evidence and not just some scripture writeing in a book about a jewish god(no offense jewish god but your not the only one....) Those who run this world are not of this world... could it possibly be the up most true of truth or faith is the characteristics of faith itself and not the meaning behind itself.Faith is based upon a persons outlook on those and the things around them,hopeing to use it as a gateway of a fighting chance.Use what you know and break down those elements to prove with a reasonable doubt that your findings are exact truth and can compare those values as a reference to there teachings as a guide to life and after life;faith as a observation of what seems to be,but is just a basis of seems to be actually true.





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