It's lengthy, but a great read from Mark Jaquith. If you were once Christian, and turned atheist, you'll probably mirror many of his thoughts and experiences.
http://txfx.net/2012...-am-an-atheist/
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Why I am an Atheist
Started by
Darkness
, Jan 12 2012 02:19 AM
3 replies to this topic
#2
UrbanDecay
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- Darkling
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- 714 posts
Nightwalker
Posted 12 January 2012 - 10:38 AM
I dig this giy's attitude. He's not an asshole.
These days it's become less and less about the "existence" of a god that explains nature to me. And more about what nature says to me, what it emanates and how it speaks. The gods emanate from nature too, I think. I think christianity fucked up how we see gods and divinity, which kind of makes atheism it's by-product. There was never so much concern for the "existence" of gods, when nature is always wondered at for it's depth and mystery it seems out "need" for divinity is fulfilled and we can just step back and allow it to manifest in whatever way our whole lives.
It's odd because I was just reading the essay "Why I Am a Heathen" in The Journal of Contemporary Heathen Thought, and the guy talks a lot about atheism(I guess as a former atheist) and it seems like many forms of Traditionalism can be just as reasonable as atheism, especially to individual human cultures in the U.S.
I hope more writers delve this deep.
These days it's become less and less about the "existence" of a god that explains nature to me. And more about what nature says to me, what it emanates and how it speaks. The gods emanate from nature too, I think. I think christianity fucked up how we see gods and divinity, which kind of makes atheism it's by-product. There was never so much concern for the "existence" of gods, when nature is always wondered at for it's depth and mystery it seems out "need" for divinity is fulfilled and we can just step back and allow it to manifest in whatever way our whole lives.
It's odd because I was just reading the essay "Why I Am a Heathen" in The Journal of Contemporary Heathen Thought, and the guy talks a lot about atheism(I guess as a former atheist) and it seems like many forms of Traditionalism can be just as reasonable as atheism, especially to individual human cultures in the U.S.
I hope more writers delve this deep.
#3
Vore
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- Twilight
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- 28,264 posts
হিজরা, Bissu, Kinnar, Niizh manidoowag, خنيث
Posted 13 January 2012 - 07:37 AM
I actually feel ashamed intellectually that I once believed enough to be angry at a God I was pretty sure didn't exist. I know that's not a nice way of putting it but it's an honest way of putting it and I've always striven for honesty. I like the way he writes because he's very honest without being on the attack. Something I have done but generally try not to.
For me the falsness of religion is in the strict boundaries people create in order to fence off the insane from consideration. A friend of yours says "I have a creature that lives in my brain and tells me what to do" ought to suggest you reccomend they seek professional help, but if they refer to it as a 'demon' then it has religious precedent and is therefor 'normal' within the confines of religious ideaology. It's still batshit insane but because the word exists and people use it regularly it makes you flip perspectives to an alternate world in which reality and fiction diverge.
The same goes for miracles. If I said I have a statue that shits gold (It's a Lannister statue) then you'd quite rightly go "Oh yeah? I suppose you're going to try to sell it to me now? I call bullshit." However if I say that the statue is a miracle of God and therefor backs up the ideology of numerous believers in God, it instantly gets special protection as a 'sacred' object (sacred means nothing except to a believer yet non-believers are told to respect it as if it did) and you can no longer call bullshit without offending a whole group of people rather than just one chancer.
Religious people have strong divisions between 'normal life' and 'religious life' that can touch upon each other yet never meet. If they actually saw an angel sitting in a cloud playing a harp they'd instantly go batshit insane because that's exactly what they don't expect to see, even if they claim they might wish to. I did my dissertation on Terry Pratchett books for this reason because in 'Small Gods' and 'Pyramids' etc he makes the internal religious world external on purpose to show that the two things cannot possibly coincide. As soon as you make the religious doctrines real you remove the requirement for faith and worse, people would live in terror, anguish and despair.
For me the falsness of religion is in the strict boundaries people create in order to fence off the insane from consideration. A friend of yours says "I have a creature that lives in my brain and tells me what to do" ought to suggest you reccomend they seek professional help, but if they refer to it as a 'demon' then it has religious precedent and is therefor 'normal' within the confines of religious ideaology. It's still batshit insane but because the word exists and people use it regularly it makes you flip perspectives to an alternate world in which reality and fiction diverge.
The same goes for miracles. If I said I have a statue that shits gold (It's a Lannister statue) then you'd quite rightly go "Oh yeah? I suppose you're going to try to sell it to me now? I call bullshit." However if I say that the statue is a miracle of God and therefor backs up the ideology of numerous believers in God, it instantly gets special protection as a 'sacred' object (sacred means nothing except to a believer yet non-believers are told to respect it as if it did) and you can no longer call bullshit without offending a whole group of people rather than just one chancer.
Religious people have strong divisions between 'normal life' and 'religious life' that can touch upon each other yet never meet. If they actually saw an angel sitting in a cloud playing a harp they'd instantly go batshit insane because that's exactly what they don't expect to see, even if they claim they might wish to. I did my dissertation on Terry Pratchett books for this reason because in 'Small Gods' and 'Pyramids' etc he makes the internal religious world external on purpose to show that the two things cannot possibly coincide. As soon as you make the religious doctrines real you remove the requirement for faith and worse, people would live in terror, anguish and despair.
#4
UrbanDecay
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- Darkling
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- 714 posts
Nightwalker
Posted 17 January 2012 - 01:34 AM
I think that all types of religions are prone to that kind of validation bias, but I don't see the opposite to be any better in a constant state. It is questioning yourself that brings you to the best conclusions you make, and it is steadfastness that makes those conclusions mean something to you. I don't think that excuses you to create unhealthy fictions though, and in a perfect world people would have no need for ANY kind of fictions. The "untrained" atheist(meaning uneducated and uncounseled) can be just as harmful to themselves, since it seems to negate any reason for integrity(honesty, generosity, discipline) even if it is not really the case, yet it's an easy conclusion to come to, especially in a place like the U.S.
I have really come to see the world as poetry. In fact, I think nature communicates in verse. Poetry explains how I see nature in a very basic way.
You have the poem, and what the poem is saying. A large, flowing emanation of thoughts and feelings. You have the words which compose the poem, which form short emanations of thought and image. You then see the characters within the words, which our mind assigns a linguistic meaning, and then you have the strokes that compose the characters.
What do the strokes tell us. If handwritten we see the wonder of each individual character by the accents and flair of the strikes. Each strike tells us the mood of our poet, and I see the same verse in the world around me. At it's coldest and at it's most divine. Nature is sanity. It is perpetually of itself, and there is nothing we can do about it. TO change it we must always become part of it.
My conversion to Asatru was due to research. Though I held steadfast to Wicca for many years, it began making less and less sense(Frey=Lord Freya=Lady.), and imprisoning me more and more in my own posited understandings of my life.. I don't like the conventional idea of God/s.
It really sucks the life from them.To "project" your gods onto everything you see is to mask a note with an odor. The same goes for dissecting and filing away every ounce of nature. The tree is not just another peice of god, and it is not just raw lumber. I want to yearn for the most numinous experiences, but find the most insense to be all my own of body and mind. I want to open that hole, that need for mystery to be fulfilled, and I want to leave it open. Never to be satisfied. I will know the gods by the same names as my great ancestors. Yet that is the smaller of the matter. The gods are spirits of nature we honor, but LIFE is not dictated by them. I am my deeds as much as my words, so in effect I am composed by those deeds(much like the pen strokes), those are what dictate my life.
I have really come to see the world as poetry. In fact, I think nature communicates in verse. Poetry explains how I see nature in a very basic way.
You have the poem, and what the poem is saying. A large, flowing emanation of thoughts and feelings. You have the words which compose the poem, which form short emanations of thought and image. You then see the characters within the words, which our mind assigns a linguistic meaning, and then you have the strokes that compose the characters.
What do the strokes tell us. If handwritten we see the wonder of each individual character by the accents and flair of the strikes. Each strike tells us the mood of our poet, and I see the same verse in the world around me. At it's coldest and at it's most divine. Nature is sanity. It is perpetually of itself, and there is nothing we can do about it. TO change it we must always become part of it.
My conversion to Asatru was due to research. Though I held steadfast to Wicca for many years, it began making less and less sense(Frey=Lord Freya=Lady.), and imprisoning me more and more in my own posited understandings of my life.. I don't like the conventional idea of God/s.
It really sucks the life from them.To "project" your gods onto everything you see is to mask a note with an odor. The same goes for dissecting and filing away every ounce of nature. The tree is not just another peice of god, and it is not just raw lumber. I want to yearn for the most numinous experiences, but find the most insense to be all my own of body and mind. I want to open that hole, that need for mystery to be fulfilled, and I want to leave it open. Never to be satisfied. I will know the gods by the same names as my great ancestors. Yet that is the smaller of the matter. The gods are spirits of nature we honor, but LIFE is not dictated by them. I am my deeds as much as my words, so in effect I am composed by those deeds(much like the pen strokes), those are what dictate my life.
