10 replies to this topic

[Episkopos]

So, I remembered I had a copy lying around and decided it might be time to read more than the first few pages (I get distracted easily, all right?).

I'm surprised at the extent to which it reads like a) a self-help manual, either a cop-out or a rejection of the obligatory extremity many self-professed Satanists indulge in and c) a set of preposterously loopy psychodramas which I'm amazed anyone can take seriously enough to be liberated or moved by. Maybe I'm just being too ironic about the whole business, I dunno.

Who else has read it? For that matter, who's taken it seriously?

[Etu_Malku]

Episkopos, on 10 December 2011 - 01:09 PM, said:

So, I remembered I had a copy lying around and decided it might be time to read more than the first few pages (I get distracted easily, all right?).

I'm surprised at the extent to which it reads like a) a self-help manual, either a cop-out or a rejection of the obligatory extremity many self-professed Satanists indulge in and c) a set of preposterously loopy psychodramas which I'm amazed anyone can take seriously enough to be liberated or moved by. Maybe I'm just being too ironic about the whole business, I dunno.

Who else has read it? For that matter, who's taken it seriously?

I've read it, I am an ex-Setian (Temple of Set) and today a Luciferian.
Your understanding of the Satanic Bible seems freshman at best.

Whereas I am not a Satanist, I do understand and incorporate some the views in the SB.
Your lack of understanding the Left Hand Path is why you find irony in this (we find irony in organized religion)
This statement of yours I find confusing, if you could clear it up please "either a cop-out or a rejection of the obligatory extremity many self-professed Satanists indulge in"?

If you could go further into what you don't understand of this religion I would be glad to try and make sense of it for you

[Episkopos]

Etu_Malku, on 10 December 2011 - 03:02 PM, said:

Your understanding of the Satanic Bible seems freshman at best.

Probably: I've only finished reading it the once.

Etu_Malku, on 10 December 2011 - 03:02 PM, said:

Your lack of understanding the Left Hand Path is why you find irony in this (we find irony in organized religion)

It's not the only reason, although you don't know me from Adam, so I can hardly blame you. Critical training and Discordian inclinations mean I would find it rather difficult to commit wholeheartedly to LaVey's ritual - there's a part of me that would be far too aware of their nature as psychodrama and another part of me that finds the trappings and claims hilarious. This is what I mean when I speak of irony. For another example: you profess membership in a religious organisation and find organised religion ironic. There is nothing wrong with this from my perspective - I'm wondering how you deal with it from yours, which seems rather more, ahm, serious.

Etu_Malku, on 10 December 2011 - 03:02 PM, said:

This statement of yours I find confusing, if you could clear it up please "either a cop-out or a rejection of the obligatory extremity many self-professed Satanists indulge in"?

Certainly. The rejection of human sacrifice and orgies as 'not proper Satanism' I read as a rejection of pop-caricature Satanists, all well and good. However, the rejection of belief in a literal Satan is purely temporary - one's required to engage in an act of religious doublethink that appears out of kilter with what's been established as the Satanic stance.

For another example: there are many laughs to be had in the Satanic Bible. LaVey's prose is wicked, wise and witty even when he's not telling jokes. The style is so proud and cynical that it's difficult not to smile - and that's good! Humour is compelling and meaningful, and the essays on Satan and true Satanism in the first two Books are right to point out that there are no gags in the Christian Bible and that that's a great fault.

Yet when we reach the Book of Leviathan, at the very moment when a good belly-laugh or a throaty cackle of triumph would be liberating and perhaps even a fitting part of the role we'd have to play, LaVey turns po-faced. He's asking us to take him seriously right when we are at our most ludicrous, surrounded by the incongrous trappings of ritual. It's from incongruity and cruelty towards it that all humour is ultimately derived, and the nervous little giggles of insecurity, inadequacy and incompetence lurks on the threshold of the ritual space.

When one feels incongrous it's natural to laugh at what a berk one is making of oneself, and LaVey is asking us to put a choke chain on our natures at the last and delude ourselves that things are other than they are. It's the same request he accuses the right-handers and white-lighters of making, and that's what feels like a cop-out.

You're going to laugh at yourself - you might as well leave space to laugh out loud, to say yes! - I look ridiculous - but that doesn't mean I'm wrong! Laughter is powerful. Laughter is part of the role LaVey would have us play, it seems - the gloating laugh in the face of weakness and delusion - and yet there are no laughs to be had in Leviathan.

At least, that's how things appear to me - but as I said, it's the first go around, and I've been wrong before.

Edited by Episkopos, 11 December 2011 - 01:38 AM.

[Idnaceus Crow]

I read it about 25 years ago.It was the first book I read and actually finished.I thought it was interesting.So I went and got The Devils Notebook. I beleive my best friend prayed er sumthin after puting crosses on Antons head of my books. Eventually I got out of satanism before I dwelled in it too much.It was weird having a Cristian as a best friend. We had our conflicts.Now he gets into Wicca and I'm here dangling in the grey.

[64kirwing]

What about the SB would you like interpreted?

[Episkopos]

64kirwing, on 17 March 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

What about the SB would you like interpreted?

Where do I ask for interpretation?

[KellyScarletRakoczy]

Episkopos,

There is the 600Club site; they are a nasty, hostile bunch of people though. In fact, you would be ridiculed if you were to ask questions regarding the SB but you could read through some of the forums.

http://www.the600club.com/

You could also ask Etu.

[Episkopos]

KellyScarletRakoczy, on 22 March 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

Episkopos,

There is the 600Club site; they are a nasty, hostile bunch of people though.  In fact, you would be ridiculed if you were to ask questions regarding the SB but you could read through some of the forums.

http://www.the600club.com/

You could also ask Etu.

Thanks for that. I'll have a poke around there.

[TheUnknowable]

I thought of "the 700 Club", a super-christian TV show, when I heard that. I guess their name is a pun.

[CultHero]

Pat Robertson and company are also a nasty, hostile bunch of people, so it's easy to confuse em.

The book's mainly a how to for hedonists, which I don't disagree with. Really, what's the point of being alive if you can't enjoy yourself? The metaphor of emotional vampires struck a chord for me, I've had more than my fair share of people who figuratively suck the life out of me. I've thought of it not as about worshipping satan but simply embracing the base desires of humanity without being ashamed of them.

Oh, and no, I don't take it seriously, I think a lot of it is meant to be tongue in cheek, but as a read it was still a thousand times better than Twilight.

Edited by CultHero, 24 March 2012 - 01:17 AM.

[Etu_Malku]

A good (though long) read on the inner workings and utlimate failure of the Church of Satan is found in Fr. Michael Aquino's writings HERE