32 replies to this topic

[KellyScarletRakoczy]

The Old Testament purports that angels fell from Heaven, looked upon women, and then lay with them. The offspring were known as Nephilim, the giants of old. The Great flood, the Deluge, was enacted by God/Enki to wipe out the Nephilim.

We can argue that not all of the Nephilim were wiped out as Joshua saw giants when he tried to enter the Promised Land.

Supersized skeletal remains have been found. Some of the skulls are seen at around 6:00 in the following video.

What do you think? Do you believe the Nephilim existed? Do you think they may still roam the earth (or possibly in subterranean chambers or caves)? Does the video impress you?

[Caulfield]

Yes I accept that they existed, though not as the offspring of Angels and Men but as the offspring of the interbreeding between the line of Seth and the line of Cain.

But I am willing to be wrong.

Edited by Caulfield, 17 November 2011 - 02:46 AM.

[KellyScarletRakoczy]

@Caulfield - interbreeding between the line of Seth and the line of Cain? That sounds intriguing. Were you taught that in church? Can you point to the hermeneutics or at least a passage that might suggest that?

What do you think Joshua saw when he tried to enter the Promised Land? Do you think, Caulfield, that some of the Nephilim survived the Flood?

[Caulfield]

I contend that originally, all mankind were "giants". We were created as such and genetically were "supposed" to be so. With the fall, and the genetic corruption brought about through it the sons of "men" (that is, those who had turned from God - the line of Cain at least) grew smaller in stature. Those who remained loyal to God (the line of Seth at least. Though Adam and Eve had many children) were the "giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward".

So when the "sons of God came in to the daughters of men" that is not the Angels (who are never referred to as God's children - that is, in fact, reserved for the faithful followers of God and then Jesus Christ Himself) but those who are born from the line of Seth (and possibly others, though it is only the line of Seth down to Noah and his sons who remain faithful in the end).

So, the "Nephilim" are God's people who remained spiritually and genetically as close to the original state of perfection as possible - and once off the ark, their genome becoming increasingly corrupted with time, were reduced in stature. Except for various examples of genetic anomalies where we see Giants in very recent history all over the world. These, however, are usually coupled with other genetic faults that result in short lives and almost always 6 fingered hands and 6 toed feet (although perhaps we were originally meant to have 12 fingers and toes?)

[KellyScarletRakoczy]

Thank you, Caulfield. I now recall hearing an expository sermon on the Sons of God (explaining who they were/were not as you explained above). At the time, I don't believe the theory of humanity originally being giants was discussed.

Hmmm...I'm thinking of Goliath now, the large Philistine that David slew. I suppose he would have just been an anomaly as are people today who are 7 feet tall?

[Caulfield]

Most likely, though not necessarily. As mentioned in Exodus the land of Canaan was inhabited by giant peoples when the Israelites first scouted it out - Goliath is probably a genetic throwback to those peoples, by a precise mix of chromosomes less tainted by sin managed to return to a more "natural" state.

However it is my opinion that Giantism today is much like Autism today, in that a great increase in one area comes at the cost of deficiencies in other, related areas. So where many Autistic people excel in math, language, pattern recognition etc their ability to empathise and in many cases even interact with others is severely retarded. So giants today, sadly, live very short lived as their organs generally are not also of giant proportions, and so wear out quickly when trying to service a giant body.

[Skadi]

Quote

Supersized skeletal remains have been found.

They have?

Interesting topic, but the "find" of giant skeletal remains is a hoax and the images taken from a Worth 1000 photoshop contest. Of course that in itself does not preclude the possibility of the Nephilim or Super Giants.

Caulfield, on 17 November 2011 - 06:13 AM, said:

Most likely, though not necessarily. As mentioned in Exodus the land of Canaan was inhabited by giant peoples when the Israelites first scouted it out - Goliath is probably a genetic throwback to those peoples, by a precise mix of chromosomes less tainted by sin managed to return to a more "natural" state.

Interesting that a Pagan would exhibit this over say an Israelite. No?

[Rhuen]

When you're five foot nothing a six foot tall person is a giant.

Its like with dragons, we have a bad habit of thinking our ancestors meant the same giant fiery beasts we use in fantasy, but look at pictures and they were often time rather puny (only speaking for Europe here)

As for giants, we do have things like the Giganto Pithicus, and the African Giant that may have existed alongside Homo Sapiens but are both now likely extinct (although some claim the Giganto Pithicus line continues and is responsible for giant apemen sightings).

I still contend that the flood was mis-translated (flooded the nation) not (flooded the world). Which I can believe a deluge covering a large flat land like much of the middle east is; a once in a few centuries massive flood sweeping the land. There was a whole special about it I think it was called (the real moses) and of course every culture that is in flood planes or near the sea has such stories because floods happen and sometimes really bad floods happen.

The giant people thing is interesting however, because various cultures have them.

In Greece it was believed all mankind were once giants, back in the golden age of humanity in the garden of the Titans. But when the gods of Olympus took over and Pandora's box was opened, the sicklyness robbed humanity of their height (interesting that now as we are getting healthier that our offspring are getting bigger on average).

Norse has the Frost Giants.

Japan has giants born from unions between humans and demons or humans and gods (Human/Yokai or Human/Kami). Who are both big and very strong.

Celts and other British isle nations have giants of various kinds as does much of Europe.

The Americas speak of giants, but they are usually monstrous in apperance, the Sasquatch being one of them. There is a Southwestern tale of a race of red-haired giants that were at war with the people, the people wiped them out. There has been some evidence that this tribe did in fact exist, but were just humans who happened to average around six feet tall.

Being giant doesn't necisarily mean being fifty feet tall. Even just a few feet can make a huge difference in perception.

[KellyScarletRakoczy]

Skadi, on 17 November 2011 - 09:21 AM, said:

They have?

Interesting topic, but the "find" of giant skeletal remains is a hoax and the images taken from a Worth 1000 photoshop contest. Of course that in itself does not preclude the possibility of the Nephilim or Super Giants.



Interesting that a Pagan would exhibit this over say an Israelite. No?

Photoshopped? Shoot! Now, I feel sooo silly.

[Skadi]

KellyScarletRakoczy, on 17 November 2011 - 02:28 PM, said:

Photoshopped? Shoot! Now, I feel sooo silly.

Who cares? It's still an interesting thread.

[Caulfield]

Only one of them is photoshopped Skadi.

There are still on display in museums around the world who wont hand their finds over to either the Smithsonian or British museum human skulls and bones that, if in proportion to the body means their owners have to be over 9feet tall. Also news reports from the US and UK, but no physical evidence after they were reportedly handed over to their national museums.

Not that anecdotal evidence is proof of conspiracy, just interesting.

As for the pagans being genetically purer than the Jacobites/Israelites surely you know your bible well enough to know that (at least post flood) God purposely chooses the weakest in body to be the strongest in Faith so that His power is more readily recognisible.

[Skadi]

Well, Robert Wadlow was 8 ft 11.1 in so over 9 feet isn't too hard to imagine.

[Caulfield]

Precisely.

But I don't think we can possibly claim someone over 9feet tall is anything other than a giant.

[Skadi]

No, not really, although to be honest when I think of giants I still think of something much larger.

[Caulfield]

I guess. Still, 9feet or more tall is huge.

[Rhuen]

When looking at something vertically things look taller than they really are (its one reason if I ever publish my Howl of the Heavens books I might change the Rai's heights from fourteen feet too ten feet)

Here is Gigantopithicus
http://www.bfro.net/...Web_v4_1231.jpg

http://www.macroevol...-400-588-64.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot...ntopithecus.jpg

http://www.age-of-ma...1/s99536125.jpg

There is a chance it may have moved around on all fours or on two legs, its something still debated by paleontologists and primatologists.

Seeing these would no doubt be talked about for ages in oral traditions and passed along long distances. Plus there is good old fashion gigantism of normal humans to take into account also.

[Sickle]

If you actually bother to read Genesis 6 you will find it actually says the Nephillim were there before and after the flood and logic will tell you that even if the flood was over the entire world as is suggested in the Bible it is still possible to survive it.

[Darkness]

Interesting topic and I want to research some of this more before I comment, but I had to take a moment to warn Sickle to either attempt to be more polite in your discourse or find another place to post. It's quite unnecessary to begin with "If you actually bother to read..." and numerous other arrogant comments of this nature. Your post could've stood alone with equal context if you had written it as such:

"In Genesis 6 you will find it actually says the Nephillim were there before and after the flood and logic will tell you that even if the flood was over the entire world as is suggested in the Bible it is still possible to survive it."

To show up with an attitude as you often do, it sets the tone of the topic and brings a negative atmosphere that puts people on defensive and discourages their posting. Please make every effort to avoid this.

[KellyScarletRakoczy]

Sickle, on 17 November 2011 - 07:37 PM, said:

If you actually bother to read Genesis 6 you will find it actually says the Nephillim were there before and after the flood and logic will tell you that even if the flood was over the entire world as is suggested in the Bible it is still possible to survive it.

Sickle,

Are you speaking of Genesis 6:4 regards the Nephilim being on the earth pre and postflood? I can see how someone would extrapolate the verse to mean that the Nephilim remained after the Flood. Genesis 6:4 and Genesis 7:21 conflict with one another however:
"Genesis 6

Wickedness in the World

¹ When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, ² the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. ³ Then the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with^[a] humans forever, for they are mortal^[b]; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”
⁴ The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
⁵ The LORD saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. ⁶ The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. ⁷ So the LORD said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” ⁸ But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD."


"And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, birds, cattle, beasts, all swarming creatures that swarm upon the earth, and every man; everything on the dry land in whose nostrils was the breath of life died. He blotted out every living thing that was upon the face of the ground, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the air; they were blotted out from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those that were with him in the ark." (Genesis Chapter 7 verse 21) "

From the following website, we have the author saying that "and also afterwards" is a later addition:

http://www.awitness....orah/giant.html

The phrase 'and also afterwards' is a later addition in an attempt to harmonize the Genesis account with the book of Numbers and Samuel, for reasons which will become obvious. These giants appear to be an ancient Hebrew equivalent to the Greek myth of Hercules or Cyclops. Shortly thereafter everyone on earth, including all the giants, called Nephilim, perish in the flood, with the exception of Noah and his family.

Regards logic, yes logic would tell us that many survived. However, God's Word is not based on logic as His ways are not our ways. Hence, the human population descending from the three sons of Noah.

Edited by KellyScarletRakoczy, 17 November 2011 - 09:08 PM.

[Caulfield]

Unless, of course, the Nephilim are actually the righteous line of Humans, rather than fallen angels and/or their offspring. In which case it was only the Nephilim who survived the flood.