29 replies to this topic

[Lethe]

Do you believe in a God or a Goddess? Why?


I find it hard to believe that a higher entity with the power to create the universe would be male or female. I don't think it would be either. I think it would be some other entity that we can't possibly compare to ourselves.

[Caulfield]

Male. Because He has revealed Himself to us as a Male, and His physical manifestation on this earth was masculine in nature.

[Skadi]

I don't know about that Caulfield, at least not enough to say for certain. I do agree it is more likely that if God has a gender that he would be male but I don't think God has a gender to be honest. Gensesis says that God made Man AND Woman in his image. How can that be if God is Male?

Also take a look at various passages in the bible where God speaks of himself using feminine metaphors and imagery:

Isaiah 42:14

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I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself: now will I cry like a travailing woman; I will destroy and devour at once.

Isaiah 46:3

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Hearken unto me, O house of Jacob, and all the remnant of the house of Israel, which are borne by me from the belly, which are carried from the womb:

Isaiah 49:15

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Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.

Psalm 131:2

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Surely I have behaved and quieted myself, as a child that is weaned of his mother: my soul is even as a weaned child.

Isaiah 66:13

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As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.

Matthew 23:37

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O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

I realise this is hardly conclusive given they are metaphors but even still. It is just easier for us Humans to comprehend a God with a Gender - a God like US.

No, I don't think God is male or that God is female. God is God.

God is a Spirit (John 4:24)

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God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

and, as Jesus himself said: (Luke 24:39)

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Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones, as you see me have.

Then there is Numbers 23:19 & Hosea 11:9.

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God is not a man...

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I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.

God also appears as a burning bush to Moses. Are we to take that literally and believe that God is indeed not a man but a plant? Hardly.

God represents himself as Male because it is easier for us to accept and not necessarily because he actually IS male. He is a spiritual being without gender.

[Rhuen]

Caulfield, on 15 November 2011 - 04:59 AM, said:

Male. Because He has revealed Himself to us as a Male, and His physical manifestation on this earth was masculine in nature.

Think that over would you.

If you were to appear before a patriarchal society and wanted them to believe you and follow you, would you

A: Manifest as a Man, who they would listen too, follow, and respect.

or

B: Manifest as a woman, who they would call a witch, stone, and fear as inherently evil.
(seriously, this is why Jewish women had to be seperated from society durin menstruation, they believed women had an inherent evil inside them that bled out during this time and the blood alone could kill a man).

References to God as male in the Old Testament are merely due to authoratative terminology, him, his, father. Inherent in such a society.

However in the old Testament Yahweh said he was not to be depicted as a man, woman, or beast, for "I am the all consuming fire."

Jesus if anything would be an avatar, not the main body.

Besides male and female are biological identities, nature also has Asexual animals (female with no need for a male), hermaphrodites (male and female combined), creatures able to be both depending on circumstances (gender shifting), and if we go to plants the whole thing goes wakka dooodle with six variations in flowering plants, genetic individual limb cloning, root networks that can be split and fuse again.
and we have budding life forms, single celled animals that split, which we identify as mother cell and daughter cell depending on which one had the original nucleus.

If God has a dick (male is denoted by hormone, genetalia, and biological role), then he is part of a species that has females and offspring.

Genetically the role of the male is to increase genetic changes, in Asexual reproduction the offspring are practically clones of the mother. With males two different individuals cross genetic material creating a new combination with a new generation to pass on traits from both parents, this also increases the rate of mutation.

nature can exist with just females if they are aesexual, just not as stable against disease or have as high a rate of change in each generation.

If we look at nature, even none-living things one may say suns give birth to new suns and planets in a way simular to single celled organism, only more violant, they explode, some condenses to a new sun, some of the matter condenses to become planets. The mother sacrifices herself for her children (not that its intentional). I'd say if God were anything it would be feminine in nature, a creator, a mother to the universe, but not in a way we could understand it in a biological sense.

If we were created in God's image, that alone would enforce that it would be female in nature. Take away that Y-chromosome, or add one little branch to it and you're a girl. From a biological stand point it would make more sense for Eve to come first and Adam created from her with some additions added so that go forth and multiply would be possible, or they both had the same gender neutral form and when it came time to leave God took "Adam" added a penis while giving "Eve" a less noticable internal change, altered Adam's hip and ribcage structure to support a more top heavy frame, and removed the fat bodies that would be breasts and relocated them to the gut.

Basically, no, it makes no sense at all for God, some abstract uber being, to have any reproductive organs, and thus be labled as any gender that we know of. I'd laugh if it turned out to be a tree and angles budded off its body (as effed up looking as some angels are you think their boss is walking around with a beard and a giant super dick flapping under his robe?)

[FallingSpider]

all of the above...from a christian stand point, god is male and the holy spirit is female

[Awake In Death]

Good points on all accounts, but lest not put a human face on something that isn't. Would you say that God created us in his image? Or did we create God in our image? The latter is figuratively speaking of course.

More than likely he would have manifest as something we could relate to and not reject outright when he 'came down to the earth' just long enough for human beings to listen and comprehend. As a God he would more than likely
be able to shift forms on a whim. So what is God's true form... im not even going to guess but even the most proposterous of answers could be correct.

[Caulfield]

Well, my God is male.

He describes Himself in masculine terms, and became male when He took upon Himself human flesh. Not because He would not have been received in a patriarchal society but because the responsibility for the sin of the world falls upon the males. So through one man sin entered the world, likewise through one man it was overcome.

The Bible assigns no gender to the Holy Spirit, but God takes upon Himself the male persona of Father- or I should say that God instills his persona of Father upon the male, where as He gave His attributes of nurturer and cater more completely to the female.

Indeed, a man is but half the image and likeness of God. He completes the image through the union with woman and the giving of life in children.

So it is accurate to say that God contains all the attributes of both man and woman, but when assigning specific Gender He made Himself male, taking upon Himself the responsibility of Sin and so being able to both offer forgiveness and mercifully take our punishment upon Himself.

[Rhuen]

Male is biological. to be male he has to have male reproductive organs and sperm cells.
Male is not a state of mind or responsibilities.

but this can take us into a whole other bag of beans involving transgender identities as male or female (man or woman) and if its body or mind.

But ultimatly its biology. If it doesn't in its natural primary state have biology than it can't technically have a gender. It comes to mind discussions on shape shifters if they can have a true biological identity, do you count the one they were born as, the one they prefer to stay in, or which one they currently are, especially if they can serve either gender role depending on if they have shape shifted into that gender or shape shifted that part of themselves to be that gender (hermaphroditic forms).

[Caulfield]

I'm pretty certain I made the point that God has a biological body and with it a gender...

*checks*

Yep, I did.

[UrbanDecay]

The Goddess is primarily animal to me, the earth's systems are mirrored spiritually. Perhaps it is the goddess beneath all of this, within the earth organism. There may be other gods, more anthropomorphic in nature. I am not sure. I have a relationship with the goddess, who is a matron being to many spirits.

[Rhuen]

Caulfield, on 21 November 2011 - 07:27 PM, said:

I'm pretty certain I made the point that God has a biological body and with it a gender...

*checks*

Yep, I did.

In other words your confusing the body of Jesus with the spirit with-in the body.

(the flesh is mortal, the spirit is divine). It was just a vessel. I am speaking more of "God" not its meat puppet avatar.

[Caulfield]

Rhuen, on 23 November 2011 - 02:42 AM, said:

In other words your confusing the body of Jesus with the spirit with-in the body.

(the flesh is mortal, the spirit is divine). It was just a vessel. I am speaking more of "God" not its meat puppet avatar.

There is no distinction to be made. Jesus is God, God is Jesus.

If there were any question as to whether or not God still has a body after Jesus' resurrection it was answered by Jesus Himself and recorded in the book of John, chapter 20.

[Skadi]

Hmmm Caulfield makes a good point.

John 8:58

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Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 10:38

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But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

[Rhuen]

One aspect of a greater whole does not the whole make.

Besides I don't recognize Jesus divinity only as a representation and take what he says as metaphorical and more encompassing of humanity as a whole. I genuinly believe he meant the things he said about himself to mean all of mankind.

That second one I take to be that "God" is in everything and in him, and thus everything including him is part of God.

I'd need to see all of John 8 again to get a feel for the context of the conversation. I don't like looking at single sentences in a narrative and trying to derive meaning from them, he could mean the spirit with in him, or he could be refering to God as "I am" which God in the old testament often did, and thus making the distinction that God existed before the laws of the Old Testament and thus the laws can be changed by the blessings of God. Otherwise its very odd sentence structure (I hate dealing with translations. Old hebrew, New is mostly Greek I believe).

[Caulfield]

Well if you're just going to disregard the writings of the NT and nearly 2000 years of accepted Church doctrine and theology then you can claim whatever you want about God.

However I reiterate my point: My God - Jesus Christ of the Bible, is male.

[Rhuen]

Okay, actually come to think of it, I'm not even Christian. (Also its 1400 years of church doctrine to accept Jesus Christ as part of God, it wasn't accepted as dogma until around 600 AD)

In my world view, the Omni-being of the infinite universe isn't sitting in a cloud palace with the body of a man wearing robes and sandals sorrounded by people with wings who sing his praises all day. I just can't accept such an Olympian like diety as the supreme being.

But everyone is free to believe what they want to believe.

[Caulfield]

The divinity of Christ has always been held amongst some Christian churches. It just wasn't until ~600 that it became the position of State.

Of course it was the very argument that was the reason for the council of Nicea. To combat yhe gnostic heresy that had been around since Paul wrote his letters in ~70 AD.

But in any case. My God has a Gender because my God is Jesus Christ, the Word made flesh and the only offer of Salvation.

[BlackRook]

There are only a few fundamental truths in the universe, and one of those is Balance. For every white a black, every up a down. And in the case of our benevolent creator; male and female.
I cannot imagine that a spiritual being of unimaginable power would need a gender, but perhaps it would need perspective. Its known to all of us that there are many difficulties in communication between the sexes, and perhaps that is for a reason. For who among us could say that the male/female dynamic hasn't guided all of our accomplishments in one way or another? Perhaps the creator was one, and when it divided our people so was it divided.
I'm a firm believer that Belief makes reality, and if a deity is believed in at all it exists in some form or fashion. In that there are two sexes, there are two perspectives (at least) as to the will, appearance, and nature of the creator.
It may well be that there is no separation, just separate sides to the same deity, however the point is ( I think) entirely moot, as there is no way to know. By its very nature a deity is beyond the ken of any human being. To think that we can have any idea as to its intention or will is absolute idiocy.
All we can do is try to put more good into the world than evil, and try to keep from hurting people. If there's a creator, its all it wants for us to learn about our world and love each other. Its really not complicated.

[passingover]

Holiday, on 15 November 2011 - 01:27 AM, said:

Do you believe in a God or a Goddess? Why?


I find it hard to believe that a higher entity with the power to create the universe would be male or female. I don't think it would be either. I think it would be some other entity that we can't possibly compare to ourselves.

I am inclined to agree. The question feels a lot like asking which side of the bed the god(s) tend to get up on the most often in the morning. That there are more answers besides a mere two.

[Ransom]

My best guess is God is a transsexual (pre-op).
Yes, God is a chick with a dick.
Preferably filipino.
Pretty face, nice set of fake boobies, and a gigantic wanger.