<_< [FONT=Impact][SIZE=7][COLOR=red] so just wait a minute here...do you guys really mean to tell me that you all believe in vampires?? i mean ya, it is a kik ass idea that you could live forever and lurk in the shadows but there isnt any real proof! i mean if there were then i would be the first one to say, hell ya but thats not the case. and when i talk about proof i mean that i want a living, breathing vampire outside my window and i want proof they are a real vampire. i mean i love the idea of vamps but they are just ideas and there is no way that they are real. So if someone wants to enlighten me on this then go ahead but its gonna take some hard convincing

most of the people here believe in vampires but as far as i know a lot of those who believe in vampire do not believe in the hollywood stereotype, rather they believe in the human living vampire, as in vampires that are basically (and this is very basic) humans who thirst for blood or energy......

That could be arranged.

Does anyone else find it humerous that the person posting this "I disbelieve in vampires" post has VAMPIRE in her name? Pardon me for my obtuseness, but if you are "The Vampire Gabrielle", why do you need proof in vampirism? I mean.... you have named yourself vampire. Why should we prove to you that you exist?

I must agree with Creature....You shouldn't need proof of Vampires if you have named yourself one.

I agree with Prince as well....Hollywood just people who sterotype vampires... They have no idea of what they are like....Just another way for them to make money.

2 The Vampire Gabrielle

It's the DeathSeeker here again....
Say, child, do you believe in God? Devil? Have you ever seen $10,000,000 (just in case you are atheist)? Well, it does not mean that there is none of it, don't you think so? What proof are you asking for? Is it the desire for unified truth that is driving you, or it is merely the desire to challange someone? (no offence, just wandering).

I'll have to agree with Prince as well. Most would say that the Hollywood vampire is only entertainment...not to be taken any further than that. Perhaps some of it is based on truth, but if it is...it is only a VERY SMALL amount.

Also...creature does have a point. What say you there? You have given yourself a vampire name.

Have you ever seen a million dollars? V+DS is right...just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Seeing isn't believing, believing is seeing...

SweetNightmares

maybe they put vampire in their name to fit in at a VAMPIRE forum and gabrielle is already taken i believe, so that would be a logical choice... wow people actually agree with something i said, cool....

[COLOR=blue]HI!!!!!!!! ALL ^_^
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH COME ON GUYS GIVE THE GIRL A BREAK SHE IS NEW AT THIS OR SHE WOULDN'T WANT TO KNOW........
CUZ IF SHE BELIEVED IN VAMPYRES SHE MIGHT NOT SLEEP AT NYTE....
BUT I DO AGREE WITH BOTH OF YOU ON THIS BUT DONT PICK ON HER TO BAD......

Please don't type in all caps, it's considered shouting, and very rude. And, it's a pain to read.

As for this thread, there's nothing in here a little effort on her own behalf couldn't have told her already, we've been over this topic over and over... Just read back on the other threads in this forum.

I know this was to The Vampire Gabrielle, but I wanted to address the poor quality of your argument V+DS.

The concept of God and the Devil are not falsifiable, whereas the concept of vampires would be falsifiable if they existed. A miracle on the other hand (an act of God) is subject to scientific scrutiny (that's why most of the time they don't pan out).



This is again, a bad analogy. $10,000,000 can actually be verified to exist, whereas vampires can not-or I should say, have not. Also, money doesn't break any natural laws, whereas immortal vampires with super-powers do.

I would like any proof of a humanoid sentient creature that *is not* human or that *is* human, but different in some manner (as in extra organs, supernatural/preternatural strength/vision/hearing/etc).



In my case, truth.

How come Gabrielle is such a vampiric name? I thought it was derived from Gabriel, who's an angel. Oh well, does that make me a vampire too, then?
Well I'd just like to say that the username someone chooses shouldn't be connected to the contents or suggestivity of their posts and then used against them in arguments. I mean come on..

Anyways, I personally don't believe vampires exist, and I really hate calling humans who may have suggested vampiric traits vampires. I mean they're still humans. They don't have special abilities or anything. Besides, there's many different people in the world, and they're also still human. They're not classified as werewolves or whatever, so for me the term "vampire" doesn't apply much.

Needless to say, of my opinion anyways, you'll never find proof of it, because they don't exist.

Exactly...If it did, I'd try to change mine to Brain McSmart. :D



I agree. I think "vampiric traits" are pretty much in the eye of the beholder. I would like to say that I have no problem if someone wants me to call them a vampire based on their lifestyle, just as long as they aren't trying to tell me they're somehow "different" then humans.



As you can probably predict, I agree with you.

it was not the gabrielle bit of the name that sparked their arguements it was the vampire bit in it *shrugs* i thought that was obvious.....

it is my belief that vampires are only different to regular people in one way, they thirst for blood, i for one do not believe psi vamps exist but the idea interests me, and before people start saying vampirism is just a blood fetish, this is a need, not fatal but a need, it is not a desire (as in blood fetish), there is a difference

I can buy that.



I think I see the distinction you are trying to make, but I would like a clarification: This 'desire', is it mood related? In other words, if you don't get blood you get, for a lack of a better word, cranky?

You're absolutely right!



Cranky, well yes you could say that! Perhaps 'withdrawal' would be more accurate.

Unfortunately, as I have experienced it, a lot of us here have been through the 'desire' stage of our development, where we will crave blood on a level, where we know we want it, but have not actually tried it, we regularly have dreams about taking blood, and try to analyse why we want it - we put this down to our 'vampiric' traits - but this is premature, and I presume this could go on indefinately.

It isn't until you have allowed yourself to take blood that you become truly addicted, this addiction can become a 'need' and 'necesity' thereafter. Perhaps then we are closer to the traditional Vampiric state - it's almost as if the blood starts a chain reaction of event's in your body...

does this sound familiar to anyone?

[/QUOTE] How come Gabrielle is such a vampiric name? I thought it was derived from Gabriel, who's an angel.[QUOTE]

Yes it is, the name Gabrielle is the female version of the name Gabriel, which literally means man of Godâ in Hebrew. Gabriel is an archangel used in several different religious stories.

In the Old Testament Gabriel explained visions.
Gabriel was also commonly known as the angel of death, prince of fire and thunder, and most frequently God's messenger.
Gabriel is one of 3 angels associated with the term 'Flaming Angel,
In Revelation, the last chapter professing the end of the world, this is the angel which had power over fire.
In Islam Gabriel is often identified with the angle Ruh meaning breath.

But of course Angels don't exist do they? !

Well I certainly haven't ever met one.

If usernames were based on personality or lifelike representation, my name would still be Creature_Feature.

Not sure if that is bad or good, though.

Anyways... in all reality, there are instances where your very username is relevant to the conversation at hand. This is such a time. If I went into a homosexual bar and handed the bartender a licence with the name "Ikillall Fags", I am sure my name would be relevant to the situation. If I went to a police station and told them my name was "Fuck Da Police", it would be relevant. In this situation, naming yourself vampire, then begging for proof of their existance.... bingo.. it bears relevance.

...I have to say i agree...we all pick our username with relevance to our persona...some real or imaginary.

mine happens to be closer to the truth.

Creature_Feature = horror b-movies?

So what's mine?



BTW-Why did you change the year you were 'born'?

I agree, but I’d just like to point out that people, more often then not, have somewhat differing definitions of what a vampire is.(Human vampires, not fictional) So maybe that’s why we get confused..but you’re right, no matter what the definition, there’s nothing there which isn’t human. Even if it seems abnormal.



Hum..why do you think I separated the paragraph in two? I was simply wondering why the name Gabrielle is associated with vampires. Probably because of Anne Rice, go figure.
My other part of it, saying I don’t think a user name should apply to an argument in any way had nothing to do with the name. This I thought was obvious.

I’d like to know what kind of need it is, and to what measures this need limits itself to? If there’s any real blood drinkers here, surely they can explain.
As Gabrielle explained, from what I gather, a thirst and need for blood is a…genetic, innate thing? Methinks there might be studies on such things.



I understand that, but this is a website dealing with vampires. Any username reffering to vampires is appropriate, isn’t it? Whatever your beliefs are. But I see your point, although I don’t see the point of your example, as this Gabrielle Vampire person didn’t actually threaten anybody. Blah, anyways. Maybe it’s just because my username has absolutely nothing to do with anything. So sorry for any misunderstanding.

Slight hijack:


What does your username mean Setsetuya?

ok here so now that i have heard all sides of the arguement, i just have something to say....number one my name is gabrielle and the vampire gabrielle is what my friends call me..yes the anne rice thing... and another thing what the hell does my name have to do with anything...just cuz it says vampire doesnt mean im a vampire....and for that daring little person that actually thinks they are a vampire and they said "that can be arranged", i just have one thing to say



.......come out, come out, wherever you are.

My username doesn't mean anything. I got it from a dream. I'm serious, but it wasn't a prophetic dream or anything. I just happened to remember the name when it was said. So I used it because I didn't know what else to write. I usually use this name for any board. For this one I was originally gonna call myself Peach, but..who cares.

it is just my belief it may not be true, but it is an educated thing.....




basically yeah, like a hypoglycemic (spelling?) who does not eat....

it is like being hungry basically, that is the only way you could understand it unless you experienced it......
there are different views on the causes of vampires (if that was what you were asking) some believe it is genetic and vampires are the enxt stage in human evoloution, i believe they came before humans and involved, but others believe different things......



then i apologise for the misunderstanding.....

Well I was talking about the need for blood itself, not when the vampire came or where it's going. We're obviously not in the same boat here...But it's an interesting thought none the less. Human evolution concluding in vampires...? I'm not quite sure what you mean, but what I do understand from it seems a tad far fetched.

Greatings, Meatros

It's the DeathSeeker here.... Sory for the late response on your post - I just happened not to have enough time to read it yesterday.... All your words are truth, for some extend. But, as you know, eevrything has two sides...

You are saying, that the concept of God and Evil is not falsiable? Howcome? I am not saying that I do not believe in God or eny other superstition, but just because meny people do it doe not really mean that there is nothing there. Take for example Christianity. It came from Egypt in form of Jeudish religion and then has been spread into the world. Vampires do exist not only in the "civilised world". Africans have god their ChupaChabra - pail-skinned creature hunding for the blood at night and dying under the effect of the sunlight. Do you think that this is falsiable also? Everything in our life can be considered as falsification. Even our lives..... People believe in God, in SantaClaus etc. - noone occuses them and asks for phisical proof. What do vampires did to people to be inneed of phisical proof? Dinasaurs died off - noone needs proof - there are bones. How can one differ human bones from vampire ones?

If you ask me - I am not one who is going to limit his mind by anything. Why should one insert himself into some frameworks notbelieving in something he is just not able to understand yet?....

Concerning vampires living eternally and possessing unlimited powers. There is a phisical proof of living almost eternally - I have already posted this earlier in this forum. If you remove two harmons from human DNA responsible for the taste and breeding - human life can be extended almost eternally. You will not feel taste and sexual need - saving this energy you can live almost for ever. This information has been published in the scientific journal some 2 years ago.

How would saying "That could be arranged" possibly imply that an individual was in fact, themselves, a vampyre?
You, darling, are the daring one. To go about naming your identity "The Vampire Gabrielle," and then assume I made a claim to the sort is rather hyprocritical, is it not?

*This is not intended to be an personal attack*

Bear with me everyone, I am blind drunk and I may ramble..
I will let Meatros himself answer about falsifying God, because frankly I am not as good at this stuff as him. But I can address some points.
Errr, el chupacabras is a South American mythform, drawn from superstitions of Native American tribes. Anyone in Texas can clarify this for you, we actually get reports of chupacabras on the news here. Now, if you want African vampires, I have to point out Obafiyo.

I really want to know when and where this was published. I recently made good friends with the reference desk at my library, I can look up nearly journal I want from the last five years. Longer than five years and I'll have to wait for the stuff to come up out of storage. If you can get me the journal and date, I can enter the information, or just scan in the article itself. This needs to be put to rest, or brought out into the light.
Regarding the points of debate themselves... I'll wait for Meaty to respond. But if you can get me that information, I sincerely want to look it up. If you can't, then don't use that information in a debate. "I read it somewhere" doesn't fly in these parts, we need more than one man's word. Even if his handle does have less vowels than mine. ^_^

-edit-
I can't believe I called him Meaty. That's too funny.
Ahem, Meatros: Gabrielle was the one who's info puts her at 93 years old. This Vampire Gabrielle is 14 years old. And she's from Wisconsin.
"Oh, Loki, was Wisconsin really so bad?"
heheheh...
Two different peoples, sir, let's not confuse them.

Do you mean God and the Devil? Or Good and Evil?

The concept of God isn't falsifiable, because you can't run any tests on it. Most superstitious claims are subject to tests, however God is not one of them, unless certain conditions are there. For example; With Intelligent Design believers, they believe you can see elements of God in evolution's handiwork, a widely cited case is the "Bombadeer beetle". IDers make the claim that the creature could not have come into existence through evolution. Which is absurdly not true, but I digress, my point is that the IDer claim can be falsified; tests can be run, information can be found, etc.
The concept of God however, can not be falsified (basically tested), because what tests can you run? How can you *prove* or *disprove* his existence? You could argue philosophically (Cosmological, teological, ontological), but that doesn't equate to proof per say.



By falsifiable, I mean it has the ability to be tested and proven wrong, not that you can invalidate it or what not. In order to prove something true, you have to conceive of every test to try to prove it false, if it withstands those tests then it is true.

Santa Claus would be falsifiable, go to the north pole and search around. If there is a big fat man giving out presents walla, Santa Claus!

BTW-People do ask for proof of God all the time, the problem is (as I stated earlier) the concept isn't subject to any tests.



You are creating a slippery slope. A lot of people want proof that the Dinosaurs died off, the difference between a vampire and a dinosaur is we have proof of dinosaurs.

There is really no reason to assume that vampires existed in the first place. With all the advances in biology, the claims of supernatural human beings can pretty much be easily debunked.

My mind isn't "limited" either. I'm being realistic though and you don't seem to be. What do you mean understand? There isn't proof of these beings existing in the first place. It's sort of like big foot, plenty of hazy pictures and anecdotal evidence-No hard data though.



You just lost me, what are you talking about? What would taste and breeding have to do with human life being extended? I already know about Telomeres, but even they aren't claiming eternal life. How do you suppose we stop the effect of gravity on our bodies? How does getting rid of taste/breeding prevent our bodies from dieing?



What journals, who were the authors, and what university did they attend?
Energy?

Hmm..I just hope my explanation was good :D. I tend to ramble on about scientific matters....



You know, I thought he might be talking about the Chupacabra too... What you said here is pretty dead on.



Hehehe...I see, as it turns out I was a bit confused. IIRC Gabrielle changed her age so that she'd be a spry 90 years old....

not evolution concluding in vampires, but vampires being the step before humans *smiles*

Two things: One, evolution does not stop-so there wouldn't be a "concluded" human. I can however see if the evolution of humans stopped because of extinction, then there would be a final evolved human.

The other thing; What type of vampire are we talking about. If you are suggesting that a vampire is a human who needs to drink blood, then that would not be a step before modern humans. The ability to survive off of blood would be an evolution in the kidneys for starters. If you are talking about a human that psychologically needs to drink blood, then evolution is not needed.

they can't survive off of blood alone, which is why i said they were the step before, having evolved ie, getting rid of the thirst for blood..... but this is a topic for another discussion, not the actual topic involved....

I agree that it's a topic for another discussion, but I would like to clarify a few things:

Evolution isn't necessarily a process where something gets better traits.
Evolution would not favor a creature that preyed on it's on species, how would that species ever attain the number of individuals to sustain it's population?
If we needed blood to live, but our diets did not consist solely of blood, our digestive system/kidneys/etc would be radically different.

i said non vampires are an evolved version of vampires, they do not need to prey on their own species, and when have i ever said they needed blood to live?

If it's not needed to live then why would an "evolution" be necessary?

Evolution is merely a way for a creature to adapt to environment and situation over a given time.

I must agree once agian.........My name refers to my real personality and how I go about....NOT SAYING THAT I AM A MISSTRESS!....But Deadly and Night does explain most of myself to others...

If you do name yourself with the world "Vampire" in it...Then do not ask if they exist...It is an oxymoron.

<_<

You are close. Evolution is a change in the gene pool of a species, it doesn't have to be a 'positive' change, just a change.

There's something I don't get about all this hum...vampiric evolution.

First off, it was stated that vampires are the first step to human evolution...? Hum, ok. Am I getting this right when I say that vampires eventually turn into humans?

And second, for the process of evolution to dignify it's definition, wouldn't the whole species have to evolve in the same way?
If only a few "evolve" or change, then this whole evolution thing is invalid. That might be known as a deformity or abnormal change, but not evolution.
And if I understand what evolution means, wouldn't the change done to the species benefit them in survival and environmental survival?

over many generations they do yes, that is evoloution

erm.... not all of a species have to evolve, i mean we still have monkeys, and they are towards the bottom of the evoloutionary ladder...

and evoloution is usually a change in the genes to help adapt, note the word usually, vampires may have evolved to get rid of their thirst because their own species were getting sparse and they couldn't afford to take anymore? i don't know

No, the only thing that the trait has to do is be passed on more abundently than non-trait creatures.



This is a common misconception about evolution. Humans did not come from monkeys, or apes. We shared a common ancestor-which isn't the same thing. In other words way back there was a primate type creature. Basically from it evolved the monkey, ape, and the neanderthal (or whatever the first found human was-I can't recall at the moment).

I think the misconception occurs when people take into consideration Darwin's idea of natural selection, in which those traits that do not promote the species are generally wiped out. "Survival of the fittest".

my mistake *smiles* i have only very basic knowledge on most things...

Don't worry, I actually don't think it's your fault. It's probably the fault of the erroneous poster of the arrival of man that showed an ape, then neanderthal man, then cromagnon man, etc. (I know I spelled some of those wrong... :o) It seems to be plastered in science classes for no particular reason and it's quite wrong.

well i suppose it is correct to a degree because if it was an ape like creature, some went one way, some went another, it does not actually say apes, on any of the charts i have seen, it just looks like one....

I agree with Prince most of us that believe we are vampire dont go by the holly wood stereotype. but there is more than the thirst for blood or energy there is also the psycic connections they feel when others are near.

Your quite correct.....They have a psychic ability to sense others...I know for a fact.....You may ask Pier, Lonerxx, and a few others that you see me talk to...I am quite capable of feeling others and knowing when they are near.. :o :o

::smiles and hugs Nemekai::

So are humans...you don't have to be vampire to have those traits.

That seems to be the problem now, you've got a few not completely normal abilities, ability to sense the presence of others, of feeding off of the energy of others, and voila! you're vampires, living breathing supernatural beings...it's just not that simple... You keep forgetting these are human traits, in many cases lost, or rather hidden, because the outburst of civilisation made them more or less unnecessary.