Is there a difference between a "Goth" and a "Vampire"? Is the difference the fetish/fondness for drinking blood? Is that the only difference? Maybe a predilection for going out at night?

Simple. a vampire is a person who needs to consume blood. A goth is a person who has the ability to see beauty in dark things. There is really nothing to say a goth can't also be a vampire.

What do you mean by "needs to consume blood"? Do you mean that without blood one would die?

I don't know if I clarified, but for purposes of this discussion I'm talking about *real* vampires, or I suppose more accurately, self-proclaimed vampires.

Yes that is what I'm talking about. Vampires need to consume blood or they with die. They are also allergic to the sun and tend to have nocturnal habits, elongated canines ect... A goth is just a normal person. Being gothic is a matter of attitude and personality.

I've heard of two diseases that are similar to vampirism, I can't think of them off the top of my head though: One makes the person crave blood and the other is an allergy to the sun. I would say the possibility of one person having either disease is slim, much less both diseases. Still I wouldn't refer to them as vampires.

Isn't the disease a craving for blood? AFAIK there is no disease that will make you actually die from lack of blood ingestion.

Can you provide a cite that says otherwise?

It's not a disease. Vampyrism is a real thing. I and many other people on this forum are vampires. We do need blood or we will die.

So you aren't talking about the disease that is most commonly associated with Vampirism?
I'm a little confused (as you might be able to tell), can you please define a few things for me?

What is your definition of Vampire?
What is your definition of Vampyrism?
Why will you die, as in what are the biological aspects involved?

What separates the type of vampires you are talking about from the people who suffer from the disease that makes them crave blood?

I've never heard of any vampire dying because they haven't had any blood... going insane yes... dying no... I'm not saying it's never happened because I don't know, but I've never heard of it...

Alright, I found a little information. The disease most commonly connected with vampirism is Porphyria.

I was also wrong in indicating that the probability of a photosensitivity and porphyria was minute.

However from what I've been searching through it doesn't seem as though the consumption of blood helps porphyria, and it doesn't look like a craving is common. I haven't gone all the way through the site yet, so I'm not going to *state* the above, just mearly mention that I haven't found a connection.

Canadian Porphyria Foundation's website

Question 1 and 2: I am not exactly sure what my definition of vampyrism is. I know it is not a disease though it can be caught through another vampire. Wait now I'm confused. Mabye it is a disease.
Question 3: ask a biologist. All I know is I drink blood to survive. I've seen vampires who are dieing because of lack of blood.
Question 4: I think the blood lust is a bit different. Vampires tend to have nocturnal habits and are usually very strong and live to long ages. Also vampyrism can only be caught by a bite.

Consuming blood makes the effects of porphyria lessen a bit. Anyone dies without blood. If anything, vampirism is more an error (or not, depending on how you view it) in the brain. The person actually needs blood to function.

Do you happen to have a cite for this? I still haven't finished researching the issue and I'd like some verifiable information if you have it. (Thanks!)



The person actually needs to *consume* blood?

In regards to porphyria, I found this:


So it would appear I was wrong in some of my details about the disease.

That was gleamed from this Did Vampires suffer from the disease Porphyria or not?

For more information turn here:
An Overview of Porphyria

The traditional vampire does need blood to survive. Without it, he dies.
It's basicaly to keep him youthfull, and if he dosen't have any, he grows older, and eventually dies. The more blood a vampire drinks, the more youthfull he will look. He can keep immortal this way, so yes, a vampire indeed does need blood for survival.

That's the traditional vampire I mean, there could easilly be diffirent types and explanations.

Baphomet, please refrain from making statements that show your inhumanness. No living thing dies if it does not drink blood, even those with Porphyra. This includes you. If you can provide a scanned diagnosis from a medical doctor including a phone number to contact them with, then I will believe you; untill such time, there will be no claims of inhuman nature.

If you want to roleplay, the topic you want is below the Real Vampires topic. It's called Roleplaying, surprisingly enough.

Secondly, there is no such thing as immortaility. I'd think that if there were any possible way to attain immortality, we'd hear about it on CNN, in the newspaper, and on the radio by a bunch of scientits making the announcement. I'm also sure that the revelation would not be made on only one site on the internet.

The kind of vampire you are referring to, Baphomet, is called a Hollywood vampire. They do not exist; they are not real. I believe that Meatros is looking for information about "real" vampires, which are the people who live a life that emulate the vampires in the movies.

To Meatros, I'm very sorry, but what you are searching for will probably not be found here. At least, won't be easily found. In your quest for knowledge, you're going to find a lot of misinformation here. I'd suggest visiting your closest goth club to find the answers you want. If you choose to continue searching here (which is by all means fine with me), understand that you'll need to carefully choose who you listen to.

I was in no way refering to immortality or cheap hollywood vampires.

In which case, I'll ask you to provide a scanned diagnosis from a medical doctor including a phone number to contact them with that states you need to drink blood or you will die. Then I will believe you and posts of that nature will be condoned; untill such time, there will be no claims of inhuman nature.

Creature Feature you absolutely amaze me sometimes. For one so rightous in his path and looks only for the evidence the actual scientific proof of everything you completely baffle me why you stay on this site, demanding the facts. I believe in GOD yet there are no scientists to back this up. Again with the utmost respect I do not wish to offend you, but what is it that you believe in? Seriously, I would like to know, and I imagine so would many.
As for goth and vampires they truly are a state of mind. To me a vampire is some one who does have a need for blood, the mind is a strange and powerful thing, it can do much more than we know and even more than science can prove. If some one is shown that drinking blood and going through a ceremony will make them a vampire and give them absolute power, and they believe this absolutely then they quite possibly would become a vampire. Now for goths, to me a goth is someone who looks to the dark things in life, the quietness of everything, the lonelyness, and things that can't be explained purely by text books. I find many of you on this site to be gothic, its kind of a religion.

Creature:-

Prove to us that he dosnt need the blood to Survive, I'll ask you to provide a scanned diagnosis from a medical doctor including a phone number to contact them with that states you need to drink blood or he will die.

Goths :

They are normal people that have taken our way of life , style, clothing , attudide and look and called it their own.....

However i wouldnt go calling a vamp a goth , however there is normally a Vamp in a group of goth.

The burden of proof is not on me, Dead^Soul. It's on him. I made no claim that he does need blood else he dies.

You know the rules, Dead^Soul. Nobody here, including you, are to claim that they have any traits other than human traits. You'd do well to not push that envelope with me, as I have little patience with it.

Ok... I feel the need to step in here.

First ... "real vampires" .... as seen by the majority of the people here are not.... nor do they claim to be the type of vampire you associate with "modern" fiction. Those who make other claims .... will need to do so in a less personal manner. ~smiles~ Although talking about possibilities is welcome .... desired ... this site does not as Creature said ... allow one to make claims of "non-human abilities" ... without some sort of proof. That is why you see ... or should see ... differences in the way these types of vampires are talked about here.

Modern vampires ... also sometimes refered to as HLV"s are simply humans of different nature. Humans that have traits similar to those associated with the term "vampire".

Modern vampires can go out in the sun, go to church ... if they desire and I say this loudly ... they do not live forever... no immortality of the body here folks. They DO NOT need blood to survive. ~sighs~ They do ... however "need" blood, energy or life-force to enhance or maintain stability in their existence. That is about as simple as I can make it.

As for the "goth/vampire" association ... it is simply that ... an association.

I did want to say, if anyone is interested, that OMNI had an article about 10+ years ago about the possibility of immortality. The basic jist of the article was that your entire brain would be downloaded into a computer and you would live on from inside the computer. Granted I don't think a transfer of consciousness happens, but IIRC it was an interesting article non-the-less.



Yes, thank you creature_feature, you have been very helpful actually!



That's a bit of a shame, I have to admit. Also, I'm in FFX VA and I really don't know of any Goth clubs in the area. I suppose I'm looking for reputable websites and I'm having difficulty finding them. I figured that this message board might shed some light on the issue I've become most recently interested in.

A belief in God is totally different than a belief in vampires. God being omnipotent would naturally be outside of the realm of science. Science can not prove the existance of God until something like a babelfish comes along. Vampires, at least hypothetically, could be falsifiable.



So among other things: A ritual, blood fetish (I don't know if this is considered impolite so forgive me if it is), are some of the things that distinguish a Vampire from a Goth.

While I agree that the mind is a powerful instrument, it does have it's limits. I think you are referring to the "placebo" effect or psychosomatically induced "powers".



Sounds sort of Nihilistic to me, would that be an accurate way of putting it?

Maybe someone should tell us what a human is...


Last time i look a human didnt drink blood ?

Creature is under no obligation to prove the claim false. In order to be believed Baphomet has to provide proof. You are begging the question by suggesting that once we accept his diagonisis that we should then collect evidence of his claim.

What's "HLV's"?



In what way do they "need" blood in order to stablize their existance? In order to be mentally sound, In order to lift depression, or in order to have energy (as in to get up in the morning)? Or is it for a reason I haven't mentioned here?

A human is the last line on the evolutionary ladder for the primate family, this doesn't mean they are the *final* rung however. They are bipedal and sentient beings.

Humans typically *don't* drink blood, that doesn't mean that they never have. There have been plenty of tribes/regions/ people who have been recorded in history who have indulged in cannabalism/drinking blood. It's generally frowned on in big societies, probably ever since Hammurabi made up his "Laws" because it potentially invades other people's rights.
Also, from a religious standpoint, you could say that modern Christians drink blood every Sunday as a part of Mass. When they break bread and drink wine, the food/drink is supposed to transmute into the blood and flesh of Jesus Christ.

HLV is Human Living Vamp.

Normally they are Talking about the Sangui Vamps....

And a Sangui Vamp is the type that drinks blood, correct?

They are not the only type that drinks blood , but yes the Sangui Vamps do drink blood..

Don`t mix Goth with a Vampire!

But I also don`t understand why are darkers called Goths! Because Gothics is a way of arhitecture, most beatifull one! Many Churches were built in gothic arhitecture for glory of God!

And I don`t see what does a way of aritecure has to do with darkers! Because gothics has nothing to do with the devil, but oncountrary with God!

Goth is a lifestyle...Vampyre is a Life....big difference here....thats like saying whats the difference between a human and a baseball player

Vampirism isnt a Life style , a life style is something that you can change , when you are a Vamp there is no changing , you are that for life.

IIRC the term became popular by Walpole, in the 18th Century. He wrote a new style of book, the Gothic style (IIRC), which is similar to Horror/Lovecraft, except set in different times of course.

Why can't you change, what are you for life?

I don't think that's a good analogy (although it could be). A baseball player is a subset of a human. It's an occupation a human can have.
A Goth is a (for lack of a better term) lifestyle, a way of living a human can have. The same holds true with a "Vampyre", it's a way of living a human can have.

OMG i am surrounded by dickheads , someone shot me , no actually shot them......

Reading what you two have said i have come to the conclusion that you are both fucking retarts and dont know the first thing about Vampirism or Vamps.. Here is a hint , go read a few sites , catch up on the subject, talk to some Vamps in real life , then come back....

Thanks for your tolerance and understand. In any event, there seems to be some confusion, perhaps it's on my part, between *real* vampires and real creature of the night, not human, vampires. I'm asking about *real* vampires, ie. the type that actually exist.

If you have some websites for me to look at I would appreciate it.

Read a few sites? You mean on the internet? Where anyone can make a website and post anything about anything? I'm sorry but I have looked at a number of sites.... most of which contradict each other.

No you arnt , you are talking about people that choose to be a vamp , you are talking about people that arnt Real Vamps at all... You think that someone that thinks they are a Vamp...

Vampirism is something different , Vampirism is your soul , Vampirism is body , nothing to do with someones mental state.....


As for a Site, i know of 2.

1). Google.com

2). Real Life

TymRavenblade:

True, the fact that there is about 18 types of Vamps , it ensures that anybody that does a "general" search will get confused...

Once you know the types of Vamps , then you can search the web on a certain type and most of the information is the same...

I didnt say it would be easy...

First off captain obvious, you aren't being very clear. Since I *don't* know what I'm talking about, please inform me what "Vampirism" is and how it differs from people who think they are *real* vamps.

Do research and amaze yourself.

I suppose I could waste 10,000 hours trying to find a decent site/cite through all the rubbish that is on the net, or I could come to a messageboard and ask for credible sites/cites. Maybe I should have done the former first, but it has been my experience that the former doesn't pan out very well.

No offense, but this advice isn't very helpful. You might think you are helping me out, but you aren't. As has been previously said, the internet is filled with unreliable and uncredible sites. Is it too much to ask a MB full of people interested in Vampires/Vampirism what credible sites they have? What sites *did* you learn from?

no a goth can be a subset of a vampyre...i can be a vampyre and live a gothic lifestyle...

Tym is right..theres a lot of misinformation out there...and its astounding...most of the vampyre culture online unfortunately revolves around the Rice Vampyres

There is a major diffrence... Two diffrent groups of people... Goth can intermix with vampires but they are two diffrent groups. Goth is a subculture devoted to music.