After listening through that entire thing about six times, I still can't figure out what the draw is. This is just a terrible album in every aspect, save for some of the drumming and a couple rythms.

Tool was becoming one of my favorite bands, I'd been through Opiate, Undertow and Aenima and loved every minute of them. But then I come across this, a boring piece that has absolutely nothing new to say, and that's the problem.

Aenima was great, angry, defunct music that tackled society, politics religion and sex in the most obscure of manners. The lyrics matched the music, both of them stilted to some nihilist impressionist art rock anger.

Then I see Lateralus, which brings absolutely nothing new. 70 minutes of pointless fluff. It starts out well enough with the grudge, with is an okay song, but everything beyond that is just dull.

And as far the final track, Faap de Oad, it not only doesn't make any sense but it also doesn't fit anywhere into the symmetry of the rest of the album.

I would rate this a 3/10, boring pretensious "Lets all come together" garbage. What do you all think of it?

The album is about a break and then a reconciliation. Between what or whom, it's not specified.

I loved the album, myself. It was different from their earlier stuff, and it was still damn good in my humble lil' opinion.

I'm well aware of what it was about, and that's the point. The concept has been done so many times before by countless artists, there is truly nothing original here. In fact, the only point on the whole album in which I actually felt immersed was the ending of The Patient.

That last song, triad, was also idiotic. An eight minute instrumental that not only conveys very little emotion, but serves to sway that "Artists remake themselves so they go into eastern meditation" trend.

They try too hard to reinvent themselves. I hope the next album goes back into something interesting rather than drab recollective boredom.

And also, if you strip away Maynard's voice these lyrics could be from any band. "We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" is extremely cheesy and shallow, as is "Black and white are all I see, red and yellow then came to be". They also try to be anthemic with their pretensious and drawn out endings, unlike Aenima which was intelligent, bizaare, and dead to the point.

i,ve never heard of the album

That's a good thing.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.... I deeply frown on your opinion, but it is yours and you are entitled to it. I thought Lateralus was the crowning achievement of the band. They took that experimental/macabre feel from Ænima and brought it much further to form a whole new spectrum of conflicting sounds. This album left me absolutely breathless and stunned for months, I still listen to it everyday. There are perfect meditation points in the record that especially calm me after stressful dayz like “The Patient”, “Mantra”, “Parabol/Parabola”, and “Disposition”. The harder songs like "The Grudge”, Ticks and Leeches”, “Triad”, “Lateralus”, and “Schism” leave me absolutely skull fucked. I have never heard anyone dislike this album as much as you seem to. Possibly I can clarify some of your question like responses.



The final track “Faaip De Oiad” is actually a clip taken from a late night call in radio show entitled “Coast to Coast A.M.” the host of the show, Art Bell, took in a call from a prankster stating that he had just escaped Area 51 and that the aliens are a big part of an international conspiracy and they are everywhere. As far as this fits the albums “Symmetry” I would have to say that it doesn’t, and it doesn’t have to. Disgustipated, the final track off “Undertow” had no meaning what so ever to the record. Maynard’s Dick, the final track off “Salival”, along with “The Gaping Lotus Experience”, obviously had nothing to do with the motive of the record. So in all respects it is almost expected for the last song or hidden track on any Tool record to be extremely fucked up and pointless, this applies to all of the above, which doesn’t include “Third Eye”.



I’d have to say that not another soul could pull of Maynard’s lyrics in the manner which he does. As far as the lyrics you stated above from “Parabola” and “Lateralus”, read between the lines, Maynard is not always referring to himself when he uses first person based lyrics. He has stated before that he flips around the meanings of “you”, “I”, and “we” in a lot of his lyrics, thus it may seem shallow but it’s probably nothing of the sort. I have gained fountains of knowledge from the metaphors he has brought forth, especially in Lateralus. I have yet to see a lyricist that has impacted me as much as he has, I thought these lyrics brought even more intelligence into the meaning and direction of the record, which Lava put so accurately.

I feel that Tool never is attempting to "reinvent" themselves, they just bring their sound so much further in every record. I think this is perhaps the best record I have ever heard, I even see it as a new revolution in music but that’s strictly my opinion and probably no one else’s. I give it a flat out 10/10.

That's not the reason I consider it shallow. The reason I consider it shallow is the pretensious and hollow message it tries to infect with every song (Save for Ticks and Leeches, though that sucked in its own right). Ooh, let's come together and stop holding grudges and be patient and we are eternal. This is not the Maynard I remember from Aenima or Undertow. Maynard has apparently been killed and replaced by a wig wearing hippy.



What are you talking about? Disgustipated had absolute 100% relevance to the album. It reverts back to "Bottom", I.E. "Shit adds up at the bottom" leading to const- or, disgustipation, at which point every aching piece of anger and worthlessness is projected at someone, I.E. God (See Sober). "This is neccessary, life feeds on life" is also of absolute relevance, think about it. Prison sex is all about feeding on another to find sanity. See? That took me all of five seconds to connect four songs.



Those aren't albums, one is an EP another is a b-side CD. Neither of them are considered full pieces.



Yes, and it also offers very little in the form of enjoyablility, making it meaningless because it's a rare occurence you'll play through it more than once, correct? So why did they include it? Maynard: "Well it'll make me sound incredibly vague and make people think I'm so very very deep."

Maynard isn't that deep, in fact I read a phone convo between him and some scholar. After the full conversation, the scholar said that the only songs offering any subliminal feedback were "Prison Sex" and "Stinkfist".



They follow trends just like every other band. When Undertow was released grunge was poplular and they dwelled in drowned out heavy pieces. In 1996 the telephone crackle voice was popular and you can clearly hear that in roughly half of Aenima. In 2000 bands such as Pearl Jam took influences from eastern cultures and religions and incorporated them into music. Hence, Lateralus. As much as you may wish to think Tool is incredibly original, they are to a point. That point ends roughly one second after Lateralus begins.

Personally, Lateralus was a boring pile of crap. If it wasn't for the amazing skills that Danny Carey posseses I would've thrown the damn thing out of my car halfway through. At first i though It might grow on me, give it a chance but I must say that its the one cd I was glad to see stolen out of my car. (I think) The problem is that they've done too much herion and are trying to hard on creating some sort of absratact art in music form, (which in most cases, you'd think was a good thing). In this case it sucks, The songs are too slow, long and not to mention boring. I think Maynard has has spent a little too much time Chemically inhebriating him self with wierd artsy musicians. Either that, or they put too much effort into making it more epic than AEnima and it Failed. Hard. Thats my take. They're still a wicked fuckin band. There's no changing my mind on that.

Lol, he’s alwayz been a wig-wearing hippy, he dressed in drag and various costumes for some of the shows on the Undertow and Ænima tours, but I’ve never really viewed him as mysterious or deep in anyway. I would have to agree that it’s not the same Maynard from Opiate and Undertow you can definantly see the aggression slip away in Lateralus, but people change, evolve mentally all the time. Throughout all the changes Tool has undergone I feel none of it has diminished the quality of the music, its only enhanced, every member has taken their talent further and further.

Yeah, but outfit choices aside Maynard has seriously turned hippy on me. That new cover album by APC, eMOTIVe, looks to be an entire CD of left wing propaganda, which is fine however if they do more covers ala Imagine, overbearingly pretensious as it may seem.

And please don't try and tell me Adam Jones is talented at playing, because trust me, he isn't. I've only been playing guitar for two years and every riff of his is overtly simple save for a few choice moments. Danny Carey, on the other hand, is amazing, watching him live he looks like a freaking machine with the precision he has.

I really don't understand why Lateralus receives all the hype it does, though. The thing had reached number 1 the day it was released and proves to be their greatest seller. It really only encompasses one idea and that proves to be something that's been tackled countless times before. Meanwhile Aenima, which attacked politics, society, popularity, drugs, comedy, sex, addiction, religion, evolutionary science, the entire city of Los Angeles, deja vu, and its fans trails behind it for no apparent reason. When they're angry it's just more realistic than when they're trying to be uplifting. It just has more flavor to it.

I definitely hope their next album avoids three things:

1. Overtly preaching a pretensiously immature message
2. Trying to be so unique that the songs are just fluff between the attempted message
3. Attaching meaningless filler tracks that you only listen to once (As in Aenima)

Lateralus was fucking great, there again Manyard is fucking awesome.... Thanks to Tendal from the boards, I HIGHLY suggest you guys take the time to read their lyrics. They are an amazing band.

I've studied the lyrics like a science, they are one of the few intelligent bands out there right now, but the lyrics in Lateralus were terrible. The only ones worth reading were in the Grudge, which made references to mythology and literature, it was very nice. The rest of the lyrics, especially in Ticks and Leeches, had no deeper meaning. They were just there and that was annoying considering the caliber of their previous albums.

What are you talking about not talented? Could you do better? I’ve been playing guitar for over seven years myself and I am still thoroughly impressed with his gift of melody and his ability to convey emotion so vividly through sound. I don't judge talent on how technical the playing is, I base it off the emotion that comes out of the melody, rhythm, and style of playing. And your right the songs aren’t hard to play, there not exceedingly difficult to learn, but the talent comes in the writing, the way the riffs play against each other, the build ups and breakdowns, the progressions, and the general format that the song is built on. I hate when people base talent off cock-rock, talent should be judged from writing ability, and creativity more than anything else (IMO), not how difficult it is to play, or the ability to dazzle somebody with fast paced solo's. Adam Jones has a unique sound which nobody can duplicate, partly due to his equipment but mainly due to his style of playing, and I have yet to find another guitarist's work that has impacted me as much or to the same effect.

Fail I said he wasn't talented AT playing, as in technique, not as in style. And yes, of all the stuff I've tried of his, I can play near perfectly (I can even do that weird smashing creak at the beginning of Prison Sex with my pick). In fact if I had the right tunings and pedals I would sound exactly like him. And no, thrashing is not equal to talent. Talent is subjective, I say it's a full grasp of positioning and melody of emotion in a song, and yes Tool is progressive, and it appears more on Lateralus than anything else, but their progression is still rooted in rock, which is a good or bad thing considerably.

Don't think for a second that I'm one of those dumbass metalheads who thinks the harder you pluck the strings the more hardcore it is, I listen to just about every kind of music. As far as true progressive music, as in truly evolving songs that take a lot of time to seep in but have an epic feel to them, the two best are Opeth and Dream Theatre, though you've probably heard of both of them if you're into prog. The guitarwork in Tool is influenced in early grunge, thrash (As in in Opiate), progressive, a bit of country and blues (Undertow), hard rock, and alternative as far as I've seen. That's just technical, though; in style, Tool is awesome and there's no arguing that. No other band has been able to imitate their style, though many bands (Such as Chevelle believe it or not) have listed them as influences as of late. They are one of a kind in that respect (And that's what's pissing me off; the fact that they're losing that strange flavor quite a bit in Lateralus) and you can credit a lot of respect to Adam Jones, who has directed most of the videos.

And aside from all that, Adam Jones himself has admitted himself in a Japanese interview that he sucks at playing guitar. So there.

of all of tool's stuff i only really liked undertow, prolly because it sounds a lot like older 80s rock at times.

lateralus was pretty dull though, the only real part i enjoyed was reflection because of the way his voice sounds.

I think this is right.
But what I actually wanted to say is that there is a band that just has a few songs but those are great. the band is called "Geist". When I listened to their songs the first time I had to think of TOOL. They sound like TOOL but at the same time they're completely different, really great music.

At www.geistreich.org you can download their songs - legally.

Perhaps you'll like them a little bit! It's really one of my absolute favourites.

Wow. Thank you very muchly for opening me up to this band, honestly I find them incredible, and I do pick up some Tool-ness in them particularly upon the backdrops and the guitarworks. I also happen to love German bands ala Rammstein so that makes it aditional plus. Do you know of any sites that can translate the lyrics because I want to learn more about these guys.

Hey, that's really soo(:4:) great to find a brother in (music-)mind in you!
Did you already listen to the song 'Leider'? I really love the opening bass part.
I absolutely agree, Rammstein is very good, too (I will see them live in December, 10th).
Sorry, I don't know any site that can translate the lyrics but if you want I can translate them for you, at least I can try it, as you already may have recognised my english isn't that good:-)

You don't have to translate it, but thanks, there's a certain part of me that loves not knowing what the words are, simply because I can tack any form of meaning to them.

And yes, that song Leider is amazing, especially at the one point in the chorus that it breaks down, it sounds very Tool and yet very much of itself as well.

I realize I got into the discussion too late, but I'd still like to throw my opinion in...

For me, Lateralus is about inner peace... and it's the natural next step in the feelings of the music they have made... the final search for calmness of your inner self, despite what's going on around you... Introspection and desire to trascend physical barriers, as well as certain anger towards the fact humans are humans, and what makes us that way is our imperfection...

I agree that this idea is far from being new... but chessy and shallow is, perhaps, a bit exagerated... specially when the results doesn't seem to come out of a forced reinvention of yourself...

I don't know, perhaps I'm a bit out of line with all that, but what's the meaning of anything if it's not what it means to you???...

You're right, Tool is all about interpretation. The unfortunate thing is that there's not much to interpret here. The title track is the only one even slightly subject to thought, and even that is sketchy. They went very mainstream with this one; unfortunately someone with calibrated tastes isn't listening to Tool just to be spoonfed lessons. I'm not saying Lateralus is simple, but...

Let's look back, shall we?

Undertow had:

Prison Sex: A deep analogy to abuse and the likeness of finding sanity within one's self at even the bleakest moments.

Undertow: A reference to being sucked in by society used in the notion of being saturated in the waters.

Aenima had:

Stinkfist: A social satire that played anal fisting in with the desire of constantly needing more of something until you reach outlandish amounts and can never pull out. Desensitizing, in a sense.

Eulogy: Uses references to someone's death as a metaphor for Christ or a martyr figure. Plays as a random person recalling him as if he was a relative.

Lateralus had:

The Patient: ...Be patient.

The Grudge: ...Stop holding grudges.

The earlier stuff was metaphorical and term association. Lateralus is just an overly dramatic lesson from Barney with Danny Carey clanging around in the background.

HAHAHAHA... well yes, you are right with barney, but you can also look a bit deeper in the direction I mention... perhaps you will also find that they do have a deeper meaning than what it seems... simple words do not necessarily have a simple meaning...

l-a t-e r-a l_u s


I think the problem here is that you aren't diggin deep enough.
Alchemy, Saturn's Acension, Transmutation, Grudges(duh).. and thats just part of #1.

If you really want to see how deep the album goes try to figure out wtf lateralus means. Trust me it's not just one thing. Here's a hint for one of it's many meanings. Think of Alchemy and how the letters are linked together... Hrmmmm What oh what uses 2 letter abreviations... oh my.. I have tellium figured out.. Now what...
Check the root word's origin charlie..


Guitar for 2 years.?

I've been playing my ass off for 14 years. Technique is only 1/3 of the equation my friend. Ever wonder why Vai can shred a guitar, but can't write a damn good song to save his life? Sure... You can play stuff that Adam can.. So what who can't? Now go try and write something...

Adam continues to blow my mind more than Vai ever could.