oo, I have a question,

if u die in one of ur "meditative experiences" (i dunno how those "visions" are called) well if u do, is it possible to die in RL ?

what do you mean?

Escoban; I've never heard of someone dying during Meditation but I've heard of people being hurt during meditation or rather what they try to combine it with.

All injuries are present after . . .I don't see why it shouldn't be. Well at tleast that's what I've come to understand.

I was sortoff going for the:
if the brain believes u died u actually die,
so if during meditation when u have control over jsut about anything u would convince urself that ur dead, would u die?
I mean, if its possible to lower ur heart rate by 60% in a minute then why would it not be possible to stop the ehart completely...

btw: should this be in another thread...

neither have i heard of someone dieing during medatation. Though i think it would probably be possible.

I forget where i heard it, but someone told me, that in a dream if you die, then you die in reality. Cause your mind isin the dream and if your mind dies you obiously cant function iwthout it.

so the same might be true for medetation.

btw: i think the experiences are called etheral projections? or is that something else? :icon11: hmmmm i forget

I've split this off from a Bloodlust thread, as the topic has more bearing here.

Personally, I don't know of anyone dying while in meditation either, but I would not be surprised.

If one can be scared to death (and fear is after all a by product of the mind) then surely the mind can kill you in other ways...including meditation.

I've died in my dreams and unless I'm a ghost now I'm still alive...

Is it possible to kill yourself by controlling your heartbeat to such an extent it stops? Maybe so...

Is it possible to hold your breath so long that you die? Not really...basicaly it's not very likely..

I think it would be possible to hold ur breath to death,
i've held it for so long that I was shakeing and would probably pass out in about 10seconds
I stopped coz I had no interest in doing that on that particular day...
:banana00:

I don't know if I would call it a "meditative experience", but yes I beleive so. Even in dreams and nightmares it is possible to have a heart attack. During "night terrors" the scientists seem to see a sudden doubling of the heart rate and nervious system for example. I would be willing to say almost for sure that people have died.

About other things. There are certain things that you can do, whatever the belief you have hold on external realities, where you can cause thigns to happen. It is possible to direct them on yourself or to have them directed against you. It can come about in one way if you are basically attempting suicide magickally (all I will say on it) which *is* possible. If you are not doing that, I don't think you have much to worry about it really... unless maybe you are doing things to others.... which is playing with fire and should be no surprise to anyone.

For meditation - pure meditation - as in relaxation and nopthing else ... I can't really see it as in shutting down the heart or something of the like. Especially not by someone who isn't very adept at it. Factor in visions, then yes... See first paragraph. The vision can affect the body's functioning, particularly the heart.

Yes, there is a threat of dying when exploring the levels of dimensions when meditating. Usually it is attributed to your own personal thoughts becoming elemental and killing the host. Elementals are created by psychics. Nothing on the demensional planes is actually able to kill you. Therefore, if you can control yourself you are at no risk. However, it is important to be able to bring your mind back in to focus. Imagine yourself as energy coming back together or a pool of water forming a new. There are many others though related to all elements water, sand, fire, energy and air. In this way you can always recover even in the event of somone psychicly attacking in a dream state.

I knew someone who was able to go into other people's dreams and offer real threat. He once battled someone. When they woke they had cuts on their arms. Still it is a dream like existence. The rules of physics do not apply as they do in real life. Remember Nightmare on Elm Street. The survivors became aware of also being able to alter the current reality, change shapes and obtain weapons through focusing energy.

I've died in my dreams before . . before I could control the out come of my dreams so I don't think that the "if you die in your dreams then you die" is exactly true . . our dreams aren't a form of the matrix.

I'll look into this some more . . .and come back with definites.

But...when you pass out, you'll start breathing again...

actually,
I've made tests, both me and my friend have a technique that makes u pass out,
and none of us breathe when passed out

Well, that would mean that you were dead.....which doesn't make any sense. As Clear stated, once you pass out from holding your breath, you will start breathing again. It's an involuntary function controlled by the brain. Not to say there might not be someone out there who has that much control over their subconscious, but I highly doubt it. Not to mention it's a little counter-productive since the brain starts to die after about five to ten minutes without oxygen.


About your original question, visions and meditation aren't the same thing. You can have a vision while meditating, and you can have a vision from out of the blue in a conscious state....but you won't necessarily have a vision every time you meditate.

The possibility of dying during a vision isn't implausible, but highly unlikely. The chances of you seeing something that would cause you....say a heart attack...are there, but more than likely you would snap out of it before it reached a critical level. The brain has an uncanny ability to keep itself alive.

actually, we pass out coz of hyperventilation then doing something which I wont say and there is great presure on the brain and u cut out the blood supply to it, but ur back to normal in about 10-20seconds so there is no real danger, but in those few seconds u do not inhale even though u start of with an exhale

anyways,
maybe my first question was a tad wrong, I didn't mean visions visions,
I meant that thing when u explore ur subconcious or whatever it is that u do...

er.. pardon an obvious question but it's like that witticism about whether you can be killed by a scary dream - how the hell can anyone possibly know whether it was the dream that killed you? Where is all this wisdom coming from???

the mind is a powerful entity and i believe it is said that we only use 10 percent of it to function and think throughout our life... With ESP, Psycic ability, astral projection, witchcraft and meduimship all being investigated by science there is no smoke without fire... taking aside my own experiences i firmly believe that we as a species do not fully utilise our abilities.

In answer to the thread question, i think it depends on a persons mental strength, wether other people are involved astrally or not and the physicaly health of the individual.

I.E A person with a weak heart would be feasibly more likely to die from a nightmare or the 'traditional' falling dream... where you are supposed to die if you ever dream you hit the ground...,.

it also depends on wether you dream as an observer, in yourself or as someone else in the dream....

Like all things it is situation dependant and i would not rule it out if only for the fact that i cannot disprove it...

As spock said.... once you take away the impossible whatever is left however improbable is the truth....

*blushes at her admittance of being a trekkie on line*

:14:

I thought Sherlock Holmes said that...:p

Abigale based her post on the great source of cosmic wisdom....Nightmare on Elm Street.......

And my posting is considered a problem? Lol....omdl!

Clear was right...pass out and your breathing still works...it's governed by the Cerebellum...which controls all life preserving systems...it is possible to conciously overide the cerebellum but only when conscious...when you black out it doesn't stop working but your higher functions do.

guess I'll have to make my friend pass out for longer to see if he really does breathe :D


u said that one should be ok when going deeper into the mind if its a sane mind, what if its one of a psychophat? or if its suicidal? what then?
wtf, my mind wanted to kill me so many times, am I giving it a friggin oportunity with meditation?

ok.... its official my mind is turning to mush.... yes it was sherlock holmes, and i'm sure Spock quoted it but seeing as i havent read any arthur conan doyle in years and i watch a fair amount of star trek i got all wrong...

all wrong, all wrong again...


*oh, dear i've made myself look even worse than i already did now *

It would be impossible to know if anyone died as the result of a dream unless there was the technology to record that exact dream and be recording when that specific person had that specific dream and then died at the specific moment when, for example, they hit the ground after a long fall.

It's similar to people saying they harness the power of their unconscious mind. If it's unconscious then by definition you are not aware of it and so could not possibly harness it.

The breathing while unconcious is governed by a part of the nervous system you normally do not control, however, the breathing reflex is not governed by the amount of oxygen in your blood, but the level of carbondioxide, which could explain why there appears to be no breathing in this case. When the carbondioxide level rises again, breathing will start automatically.

You could of course continue the fascinating experiments, but you might have a problem sharing the Ultimate Insight

on a note about holding ur breath till you die... impossible.... your subconsious takes over... its the same principle about why you cant drown yourself (by holding your own head under water say in a sink of bathtub) your mind wont let you..

the mind is a powerfull and misterious device,
it's mistery only succeded by its power

Oh hush. I'm just being an insufferable know-it-all, and might well be wrong anyway. ;)

That is a myth....here's why:

And here's the link so you can check it all out for yourself:

http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percnt.htm

ok fair comment, and thankyou for pointing that out to me i wont be making the mistake of forwarding that little gem on anymore...

..however, it still doesnt explain the unexplainable and no doubt science will one day give names to things that hold wonder for people now, but just because they have names will not make them any less real, just less mysterious.

Personally speaking i have always been open minded but my husband is one of the biggest sceptics i've ever met... but he is changing his opinion through experience....

i wont go into my own personal abilities on this thread as i have posted them on other threads before, but even if we use all of our brain we are still subject to evolution and as its based on survival of the fittest we continue to evolve...who is to say that that process will not involve pshycic abilities..and even from the scientific point of view that dreams and astral projection etc are products of the subconcious mind, surely that makes it all the more compelling to uncover what our subconcious is trying to tell us......

Okay, read the original post. We are talking about intensive meditation, possibly involving the 3 pillars. This is Not about a scary dream.

Secondly, writers research what they write about or already have extensive knowledge. Possibly the reason Nightmare on Elm Street is so good is because it fictionalizes know metaphysical phenomena.

I'm not disagreeing with you on that point. For the most part, the scientific community has a reputation for overlooking abilities of this nature. I also feel that there are parts of the brain responsible for such abilities, but science surely isn't going to map those out...saying "look here, this part is the astral projection center"....

LMFAO..... :ol_biggrin: no i'm sure science will never publicly map that part of the brain and label it so... for one thing they would have to give it a completely different name so as not to be associating with that phrase and another it would have to be an unbearable long name that noone could pronounce!!!