Well there is a concept of God’s Plan. A lot of people interpret this as God leading every moment of everyday in a person’s life. Then another concept of “Free Will” also exists. This would imply God is not responsible for decisions people make. In fact, all the bible states is that your life will be better if you do not do certain things. Also if you love God, God will return your love and love you.

There are many ideas out there. One that has kept me preoccupied, as a person simply looking out in the world through my limited vision is the purpose of life. Why does it seem so much is hidden from people now? Could it be that in order to be in God’s likeness we as human beings need to be able to make decisions for themselves. This could be the reason for why Adam was told to name the animals and care for the Garden of Eden.

I believe we are being groomed to get in touch with our innate sense of right/wrong, beautiful/ugly, etc. . .. sensibilities. Therefore, relying too much on trying to directly contact supernatural beings is counter productive. It was not meant to be a world with superior beings telling each person what to do. Back when man was first brought about God would talk to people regularly. Then the Angels came in many forms to assist them. It has always been easier for people to worship them, as they were stronger, wiser and immortal. By being immortal alone they have extensive amounts of knowledge. It is simply Lazy to have them do everything.

It also occurs to me, Angels may have never looked human. They may have animal forms giving to animals the likeness of Angels. Kind-of off topic, but it does seem possible. Perhaps even if God is energy then maybe we have become to attached to the clay image of people. Hair representing electrical sparks. Of course I don’t know what God looks like no one does.

Anyway, back on point. Fate is only an idea. Really people should make their own destiny. If someone decides to do something accepting responsibility for the consequences is only fair. Mankind should use their knowledge to become better, freeing themselves from pain and suffering. However, this can only be done if each person takes responsibility for their own life. Otherwise laws are around to protect people. Also if you hate God for three generations your descendants will be cursed. Also disrespecting your parents will get you kicked out. Think about it.

Is god responsible for everything? No. God is an amalgam of ideas, expressions, and identities from many other older religions all rolled into one.

Since he's a manmade fake story, no, he is responsible for nothing.

I would have agreed with everything you said there....until you came to God. I have lived 40 years, spending many of them searching for truth, and I have yet to see one single, solid, concrete proof of a "God".
Not only that...the universe appears to be a simpler and more stable place when a God is not present....more questions and more confusion arises once you assume that God exists.

In any event...of course people should strive to acheive betterment. Otherwise, why live a life grounded in misery and ennui? It would be much better to be happy for a short while than live a long time suffering, no? ;)

I could hug you...but that would be egotistical of me...for I think well of you for thinking as I do...

I have very strange views on what "god" is to me that are different than probably anyone else here and would probably take many pages to explain - and then only to confuse people more than when I started. :) But let me say some things without getting into that.

About god being responsible for everything, including negative things. Sometimes I wonder about how it is that we view things. We see things as being painful or negative, so we seek to avoid them. But so often these negative experiences teach us valuable lessons - and sometimes even if told in advance what will happen if something is done or not done - we will do it anyway for various reasons. This shows that we need that experience to learn and to grow as whole. We are like children who touch the fire after being warned that it will only hurt us by our parents. Sometimes we can choose to learn by what our parents say and govern our behavior accordingly, but most of the time we need to burn our fingers for ourselves first before we will listen fully and take it to heart. Perhaps as a whole humanity itself is like such a child.

About mankind using their knowledge to become better. I agree. But let us define what better means? Therein lies the stumbling block. I think that it is best done by coming up with general principles first and then translating them to a lower level in implementation. But so often when you ask others to define what is better to them you will get specific things relating to specific problems centered around them and their reality. Often without any perspective of humanity or the universe itself as whole. And then all these concepts of "better" clash with each other between the people as they seek to bring them forth. It all creates an atmosphere where we are not working together in any way, instead we are more working against each other with our own individual ideas and concepts of "better" which end up being in conflict so often. Somehow I think we need to first agree universally what "better" is in broad terms and then we need to work towards this translating it into our lives. But we could end up with a problem or two. The way our current society functions might not fit within this model we have came up with and we might find that it is time to step outside it...

How do you figure that? With the exception of Buddhist nations, which I guess would rather fall in under idolworshipping, I couldn't think of many large populated areas without some form of deity. And I surely can't see any grounds for claiming buddhsists are calmer and less confused than other religions. It is human nature to question, or accept. The subject makes little difference.

Simple does not mean simplistic.

Simplistic is the concept of a God. It's really easy to believe in a deity...to ascribe the mysteries of life and nature to some unseen, omnipotent being. We ascribe human characterisics to universal forces....demons, angels, bodhisattvas, gods....
It's a comfortable assumption, since we were raised as children to value the authority of parents and teachers and leaders. We give up our responsibilities and our impetus for learning to the mercies of some invisible God.

It's a trap many people never escape.

It's a simpler universe without a God in it...but it's also a more profound concept. It's more difficult to accept that the Universe perhaps has always been, or that this is one of many universes, born, rising, declining, dying, reborn.

However, when one really thinks about it....many more questions arise from such a concept. If God created the Universe, who created God? And if God is so powerful, why does he allow evil to exist? Can God kill himself? And so forth.

Also...why do you ascribe Buddhism in the same vein as idol worship? Most Buddhists do not worship stone, or wood...they worship the Buddha, or more correctly, the Buddha Nature, in all beings.

The Buddha in itself is an idol.

That's true...it seems to me that Christians spend much of their time worrying about the "symbols" loosely translated as "idols" of their worship, the crosses, the statues, etc...

The Buddhists, from what I've seen, have much of the same, the statue of the Buddha, incense, and offerings.

Responding to the original question "Is God Responsible for Everything?"

I'd have to say no. He's responsible for the beginnings. Everything else...is up to us. *laughs* That's the theory, anyway.

I believe something a little bit different though, sort of a combination between fate and free will. My choices were dictated at birth, but the actual decision of which way to go...is up to me. A fate that I have the ability to change.

I can't speak for other Buddhists, but in my particular sect (a branch of the Nichiren school) we're not taught to worship the image of the Buddha. The Buddha himself never asked to be worshipped.

We have a mandala we focus our daily meditation and prayers to, but that is more an aid to meditation than an object of worship in itself. It is not absolutely necessary to the practice itself.

*nitpicking in progress*

Then why did you use the word worship? ;)

Seriously, the subconcious is usually a good indicator...the infamous freudian slips. Though it may not necessarly be what you intended, it's often what you feel deep down...in my opinion.

I think that we are responsible for 98% of what happens in our lives; the decsions we make determines the out come of every situation; your decision added to action and reaction. The other 2% represents other people and their decisions which you can not control.

God is a novel concept but it is time that people take responsibility for the themselves and the decisions they make.

For the statement about God being manmade, I no longer believe this. Let me tell you why. For a long time, simply an athesist, supernatural seemed a trick of the mind. Manifestations to supply thoughts from the subconscious to the conscious like a dream. Came across a Templar, Magi by distinction. He was interesting and my type. He took a great time studying magik and learned the real name of God. He also had split personallities. It wasn't until later found his personallities were not split at all as much as he could easily channel spirits.

One night we got drunk. Told him about one of my psychological hallusinations. Looking at the clouds one day, for a long time, started preoccupying myself. Having silent conversatio with an inner voice a topic was the true name of God. It was when much younger. He challenged me to say it. However, couldn't remember it that clearly. He wrote it down for me. It took a minute to remember. While looking down and saying it he grabbed me. Looking up a large rectangular pool of rippling water hung in the air about two feet off the ground. Stopped saying anything. The portal disappeared. After that started thinking there was more to everything going on in my head.

With firm belief in God after that point, took an idea had for a long time and tried to put it in to understandable words for other people to read. It made total sense to me, though really very garbled. This is the basic premiss:

Existence

A while later, talked to my friend again, the one who knew the name. He couldn't remember anything. Looking at his notebook the page was torn out. It is something he never does. Very confused, it appears the only witness is me.

I beleive that there are probably higher beings than us that wander about the universe, it has even crossed my mind that we are merely their entertainment; the everlasting soap that never looses its flavor.

And if god wanted to make his presence known why didn't your friend remember; surely he would know that you may need tangible proof of him and of that experience so that you may share, propogate who you can with your knew found awareness. . . . .

Rumor has it people are so unclean, if God see you he'll get pissed off and you'll burn to death. How true is it? I don't know. Not really wanting to test it. There was a part of the Old Testament where Moses cleans everyone of sin to see God. An incident made it so everyone said they didn't want to be around God anymore. Well it seems odd, I guess. Would be easier to love someone if you could see them once in awhile. Might also want an entity that powerful to hang-out with you. Still it's the way it has been for a long time. Will probably stay that way for awhile more. Judgement Day is said to take place with the return of God. Not in the mood for Judgement Day. If anyone wants to risk their lives, could try it again. If Judgement Day isn't today all witinesses would just die.

if god was responsible for everything then criminals would roam free

Yet god gave us free will knowing we were weak enough to sin . .wait sorry; he knew that we would sin because he is all knowing yet he gave us free will and he wants to get mad?

When it comes to christianity I know it inside out . . you need to come better than that . .too many loop holes

Can I add my opinion? To me, what I believe in is this God, the Creator. All religions are man-made that I agree. And they all worship different gods. What I think is that, way before time, they were actually worshipping the same God. That is, at the risk of blasephemy, Allah, Jesus etc are all the same. They are essentially the same God. Just that throughout times, people in different geographical locations localised and produced their own versions, either unknowingly or knowingly. So essentially, the Creator made us.

I shall go on to the meaning of life as I have discovered for myself as I find it relevant to this thread. To me, humans are basically one of the lowest lifeforms on the evolutionary ladder. Note that I mention evolution and creation in the same breath. After we pass away (Death is but a release from the physical wordl), we we evolve into the metaphysical world. In other words higher beings. Or angels. If we pass the criteria that is. If we have learn all the lessons that we are supposed to learn. Therefore, those people that failed to meet the criteria, well they become humans again until they pass. And these higher beings, they become our guardian angels.

And now to touch on why Archangel says that if there is a God, why is there evil in this world. And also, I don't remember who, why are we given freewill if we so easily succumb to evil? Let me draw an analogy. Suppose Archangel, you are the father of a child (you maybe? I donno ^_^ ). You would want your child to grow up to be strong and worldy right? So that he don't make mistakes in life in the future. How do you want him to learn? Coop him up all day in the house where it is safe? Or let him play outside where there maybe risks of injuring himself? And when you do see him fall down and injure himself, do you rush over to pick him up and whisper sweet nothings to him? Or let him recover on his own through his own strength? It is the same with God. Evil exist as a test. We have to go out to play. And if we fall down and hurt ourselves, we have to learn how to pick ourselves up. Only then will we be stronger. Azriela, he doesn't get mad. :)

And of course, regarding Buddhism, remember that it is just a way of life. Buddha started out as a prince. And he was enlightened and therefore became Buddha. Buddhism is just a way of life seeking enlightenment and peace, not about worship which is what is happening now.

Sorry for my ranting and the long thread. Cheers

So... you had a hallucination, which is by definition seeing and hearing and even feeling things that are not real, and take this as proof that something exists?

How exactly does that work, experiencing something that wasn't real proving that it exists?

As far as your next post about the old testament and Moses, give us the Book, Chapter, and Verse. In my eight years of seminary education, I never once came upon that story.

The rumor about burning to death... well, obviously it's false, right? After all, he picked you up and you met him, and you're not dead.

Genesis
6:7
6:17
7:4
7:21-13
19:24
20:3-7
38:7

Exodus
4:23-26
7:4-5
7:17-24
9:2-6
9:9-12
9:14
9:19-20
11:4-6
12:12
12:29
14:4-28
15:6
17:14-16
22:18
22:20
22:24
23:27
30:20-21
31:14
32:10
32:27-28
32:35
34:20
35:2-3

Only two books of the bible, and we've got 31 instances of god getting pretty mad (unless my understanding of god premeditating the mass murder of innocent Egyptian children because the Pharoh would not listen to God - because god MADE him not listen to him - or god's request to be let alone so his wrath may wax hot is actually god being a happy puppy and I'm just reading it wrong.)

My my aren't we touchy? ;) First of all, you are quoting from the Bible right. And where is the Bible from. Can we really claim it to be free from bias? That is, Man has never alter it to suit his ideological bias? After all it was Man who wrote it down. And you do know that some of the chapters in the Bible are missing. They are not included. Everything that is mentioned by Christians or Roman Catholics, you do have to take it with a BIG pinch of salt. For they tend to twist things their way to suit their purposes. Even the bible.

<edited>Ok, I forgot to add. Some may be true like those mass killings. I have no idea which. However, you do have to push God's patience very hard to make him do such things right?? Like mass orgies, etc etc lol...which is what is happening now? o_O??

Don't trust easily...

I happen to be a father to two children myself. I agree that they should make their way into the world myself...but co-relating that with the presence of evil just doesn't wash. The concept of God being "good" and evil being a test is just bogus. If evil is just a "test", then why are some people tested differently than others? Why are some babies born to privilege and others born to crack addicted mothers?
And so on?
It's a rather arbitrary and discriminatory way of testing, IMO.



Who are you to say it is just a "way of life"? Have you ever studied the tenets, the paramitas, the sutras, the whole philosophy of Buddhism? Can you expound the Eightfold path, the concept of karma, the Atman, the Bodhisattva ideal, the ultimate Enlightenment of all beings?

I don't mind a discussion of religion, but you're coming off as being all knowing in a subject where you don't seem to know very much about.

I didn't quote anything. I gave you places you should go read. Try to read a bit more closely next time.



Those that believe in it consider it to come from god himself, simply acting through a surrogate to write it. It is, however, written by man and it has been retranslated into literally hundreds of different versions, each slightly different. The overall story is identical though, the differing translations by and large simply use different words that were contemporary to their timeperiod and considered less offensive than other versions.

However, if you're a believer in god, as you say you are, then you have no choice but to believe in the Bible. It is, after all, the only way you know about god in the first place. You know nothing of him or his religion outside of what you've read in that book.



Yes, the Apocryphia is well known to me. I take it you've not read it. You see, had you read it you would have realized that the Apocryphia will further disprove your claim that god does not get mad. You really don't want me to start an outline of god's anger in the Apocryphia. Next time, try to research your points before you present them.



Like you're doing now?



I'm getting the picture that you REALLY don't have any idea what you're talking about. Go do your homework on this subject before continuing further.

In the bible, god's become angry and comitted mass murder of innocent children over things as small as simply not believing (you know, that whole free will thing he gave us). He's gotten angry and killed a woman without offering the chance to repent simply because she was homeles... because god killed her husband. This wasn't even a heathen, this was one of his own followers!

If you believe in god, you must beleive these things. It is in the bible, and the bible is the only knowledge you have of him. You cannot pick and choose what you like to hear; it's an all or nothing thing, otherwise you're an idolater, you worship what you have tried to make god. God did these things. If you believe in him, you beleive that he's comitted these terrible evils. And no, as proven above, you don't have to do jack shit to piss him off.



:rolleyes:

I'll continue to trust in my own eight years of seminary education over your uninformed and misguided opinions. No problem.

It is one thing to give your opinion it is another to not be aware of christian scripture and speak on behalf of it; I still have Christian values(well the decent ones) and morals; I used to go to church and I have read a good deal of the bible.



God gets mad plenty which was the reason for my statement earlier about free will; god knows that we will mess up yet he lets us. Think about it; god knew that the world trade center was going to be bombed . . .knew that there were thousands of innocents inside yet he allowed it to happen, he allowed hitler to start the holocaust, he allowed slavery . . .he wanted these people to die? They all pissed him off on that one day and he wanted them offed?

Read the bible; it has alot about God; the omnipotent getting pissed off . . .In the mean time . . .think about every tradgedy that has happened in your life and around the world; you feel the pain? God allowed it all to happen.

(well this post is a response to God doesn't get mad . and he allows us free will so we will make mistakes and be stronger, please I want no one to misconstrue my words)

God is not responsible for all things. You yourself are responsible for your own actions, God is resposible for the reprocussions of those actions......

That is very well said. However, find on many occasions other people make you responsible. If you steal something from someone they may chose they like their stuff more than you or just steal your stuff to get even. Hurt someone they or their friends will hurt you back.

This brings to mind another issue. God loves everyone right. Therefore, everyone is favored in one way or another in the beggining of life. If you hurt someone God loves, while might still love you, it creates a conflict of interest. Love you or protect the innocent.

Hmmm..ok point taken and conceded :)

Okay. Fine then. You have all learned something valuable.

Like to also state if God isn't real, probably has little responsibility to begin with. Usually things that don't exist very rarely ever get involved.