I admittedly have little to nothing to do with vampire lifestylers outside this site. Yet I am very intrigued by alkl things occult even things braught on by new fresh twists in vampire genre. on to my question however. I have noticed lately laced throughout several threads there is a growing lifestyler idea that Vampires and Witches/Wiccans cannot get along or are "mortal enemies"? I am just curious if anyone can point to a peice of literature or some new idea within the vamp culture that brings this idea about. I am just curious because I keep seeing slight undertones of this and was wondering what the fuck happened all of a sudden.

actually ive heard of that too, and honestly i'd like to know the answer that question. I am a wiccan/witch (whatever you prefer) and i myself (not speaking for others) am not "prejudice" or hate vampires.

Just wondering here...are you fererring to wiccan witches, or witches in general? Because the two are in no way the same thing...It's like asking for religious/christians...you know?

a good point

Wiccans are harmless, dancing about with crystals, talking to small animals and generally trying to do good

When witches and vampire clash? Imagine a fight between a polar bear and a fridge freezer? Guess which would win? (Clue: Polar bears have teeth)

vampire do not hate witches. Hatred is a useless emotion. Like all human emotion

but witches, and their running dogs, Satanists, clutter the place up with things best left where they bide. They create a fuss. Their plans and vampire plans oft cross.

with predictable, but time consuming results

Define Witch? Define Satanist?

The Church of Rome makes no distinction as is clear from reading The Hammer of the Witches

In practice, Satanism is a religion, worshipping The Great Deceiver, or Satan. They have their rites, plans and methods. The Church of Rome is their enemy.

Witches, who interestingly often use the same techniques and practices, are individuals or groups who follow a code. They are not a religion. The Church of Rome has made of them an enemy.

A simple definition, but one which may suffice

You seem to be asking mainly lifestyle type vampire. That is definately not me. But I suppose most everyone else has had plenty of time to respond so I will add my observations.

Often a lot of the people who label themselves as witches are wiccans, this is probably who you will most see representing the term in the west these days (and probably more who you intend to refer to?). Wiccans are more in with, oh, I don't know how to put it... hmmm.., I guess you might say the "love and light" crowd or maybe being stereotypical and using a term that probably is disliked "white witch"-- they tend to see things - in general - as being more, oh, "idealized"... The focus is primarily on "positive" things. One way that they traditionally deal with "negative" things is to just ignore it - not acknowledge it - or to ritualistically "cut ties" and "links". An interesting tie in with the idea of vampirism is the way that some wiccans and "vanilla" psychics use the term "psychic vampire" or "psychic attack". By this they often more mean regular humans who are doing something or in a state of mind of something like jealousy, hate, maliciousness, etc. and it is said that they are projecting this to you with thought, etc. The jealousy then sort of "weighs" on you and "attacks" you and your life. Or it could be one who is very "energetic" during things liek public speeches, seeming to "live" on the emotions and energy of the crowd. This is just an example of how some do and see things, not all by any means - even this isn't really true to the highest level - but probably describes many quite well.

Sometimes some people can kind of resent the idealistic view that some people have of certain things for various reasons. One obvious one might be that they think the idealized view of things is just wrong. Another could be that they were just taught to think this way about them (this is probably more the truth in most of these cases of this time). Another might be just pure anoyance.

Can whatever and whatever ever get along? Sure, why not? Because someone is cast in a traditional role or society thinks they should act a certain way, it does not mean they have to. We are all individuals at least to some degree. Hopefully people will think for themselves outside of whatever (if any) group they place themselves in before deciding to take adversal stance against another individual no matter what group they are percieved to belong to. Soemtimes I think this very thing causes many problems for the world.

I don't know what to say. I myself practice witchcraft and lead the best vampire lifestyle as possible. I have a long blood line of witchcraft. Also I have spent my whole life feeling as though I were a vampire. I just seemed natural. As far as that goes I have also been outcated by both sides for these choices.






Imagine that.

Satanism isn't necessarily worship of Satan...many branches doesn't even believe in a satanifc figure. They worship the power within Self, and couldn't care less about the Church of Rome. Modern satanism is more a philosophy than a religion.



And...you can hardly trust Malleus Malleficarum as an authority on witchcraft and satanism, seeing as it was written by a couple of rather paranoid, superstitious religious fanatics several hundred years ago.

Yes, Clearwitch, I hear you are a knowledged person on witchcraft. And thank you for clearing up the satanism bit (even though you got it before I did, I would have loved to correct someone).

Vampires and Witches are not really enemies or don't really hate each other. We just don't get along. Its a whole "They said this so we say that" Kind of thing. Mainly vampires and wiccans are the enemies. Vampires need life or blood to survive and wiccans protect life so are usually interfering with the vampire. But on the other hand, witches don't really care what vampires do. Some practices lead to human sacrifice and others teach solitude, but we rarely cross paths. When it does happen though, somebody usually dies after a fight. But this may not be what you have heard. I'm just telling you what I know. :ph34r:

I have a question slightly related to this, so I didn't see the point in opening a new thread...
but why is it that people (admittedly, the people in question aren't the brightest of sparks, not referring to anyone here, by the way) resort to labels they know nothing about? For example, at my school, most people label myself and my friends "Witches", "Goths", and recently, directed at myself and one other, "Vampire." I don't have any objection to this, really (rather a poor insult, come to think of it, none of those things, particuarly the last, would be unfavourable, in my opinion), and haven't really done anything to convince people otherwise, although I'm far from what Goths stereotypically are, and admittedly don't know much about them, I could probably be considered as simmilar to the other two, not a witch, but definately pagan in my beliefs, and of an open mind towards vampires (sunlight hurts my eyes, but I'd sooner put that to a nocturnal, antisocial bookworm/net addict lifestyle than anything more interesting, unfortunately), and not against the taste of (my own) blood, occasionally, although none of my would-be tourmentors could have a clue of this.

So I guess my question is, when did people start to draw assumptions without knowing the facts? The accusations of my so-called peers don't bother me, although I worry that those whom genuinely do fit the description may be offended by my connection to the term, being, as I am, technically not a member of any of those groups, but why, when none of us show any reaction, do they continue in it? If it were merely to insult us, they would surely stop when they saw it made no effect. And if they fear what we are, why would they risk our anger?
*smiles* I suppose I may be both a little off topic (for which I appologise) and reading too much into the whole situation, but I'd like to get some opinions.

~ Ithika

People have always made assumptions without checking the facts, it's part of human nature. Don't you remember as a kid the scary lady down the street with all the cats? We've always filled in the blanks, to be able to put people in their proper little boxes, label them and stuff them away. And everyone does it. The preps scowls at the goths, while the goths scowls back at the preps, and both parties feel they're the offended ones....

In my opinion, at least. Personally, I'd advice you to revel in your uniqueness, we are all created perfect in our own way.

That was one of the best written posts i've ever read on the topic

i agree with every last tiny detail, and couldn't have said it better.

I was wondering if you would mind if i quoted all or portions of it on a web page?



as for myself, in regard to the general topic...
I'm a psi vamp AND a practicioner of magic(k). should i not get along with myself?

Kath

*nods* I agree, I guess it's in human nature to judge, sort of, a precautionary instinct, perhaps.

*grins* I generally do, I was just wondering about it then. Thanks for the advice.

Hey all, this is my first ever post, so be gentle. There is a reason for the so called rivalry between witches and vampires, and i think it's the whole "protection/draining of life" thing.

The law of witchcraft is "harm none", so vampirism would go agaist their beliefs. Even if the donar is willing, they are still being harmed. Drinking ones own blood would harm yourself, again breaking the rule. However the main gripe some witches have is not with sang vamps, who can not feed any otherway (and are therefore grudingly accepted), but with psi-vamps. Many witches (but not all) believe that feeding off human energy is wrong because energy can be raised in other ways that bring no harm to those around you. Some psi-vamps may feed indscriminatly or without permission, which is looked down upon by some witches as they believe the vampire could retrieve energy from nature/magick/storms ect.

In return some (but not all) psi-vamps do not like witches as they take energy that they do not need. Witches (who are not also vampires) do not have any need to feed on energy, but some still do. This is considered unethical by thoses psi-vamps who would never take any more energy then they needed. Some vampires with little or no magickal talent are also jealous of a witches ability to summon magickal energies, so that they do not need to feed from human sources; or bitter that witches would belittle them for taking energy from donors when they do not have the ability to feed in any other way.

This is extreme generalisation!! do not shout at me!! all I am saying is this may be the reason some vampireas and witches do not get allong.

Interesting post, and welcome to the boards :)

But I have to disagree with almost everything youve said :P

I completely and full heartedly agree with ReVamp

hehehe I'm going to jump on this one...WHY do you disagree?

I will. And bear in mind nothing I say is aimed at you personally, or intended to criticise you. Welcome, btw. :)



I dare say this is taking the golden rule of wicca a bit extreme. Drinking moderate amounts of blood isnæ't harmful, if they believed that, they would be unable to be blooddonors as well, along with any form of surgical/dental action. Pulling a tooth, however needed, would be considered harmful to you. Not to mention the sacrilegous acts of drinking alcohol, smoking, body modification or birth control pills.



I can actually agree here. I do find it odd when psivampires insist they are dependent on donors to feeed from, energy is found everywhere around you. If you can't find a willing human, and don't feel like "stealing", go somewhere you know there's been a lot of people. A busy street, a playground, a popular beach. It can be empty when you go, because it's not the people currently there you're to feed from, but the energy left behind by everyone who has been there. Needing to feed from present company is in your mind, you're confined to the limits you yourself create.



I'm not a vampire, so I wouldn't know about this...but for some, it sounds more than plausible. It takes all kinds to make a whole. ^_^



Nobody will be shouting. If they do, I'll thwap them. ;)

Now personally, I haven't heard of any vampire/witch war, or even dislike between the two fractions. On the contrary, they seem to blend together as one. But that's merely my experience, it doesn't mean such rivalry doesn't exist. And if it does, I wouldn't be surprised if the reasons you listed were for a large part behind it.




Revamped, Draquilas, what excactly makes you disagree, and what are your opinions?

As a vamp, I do draw energy from those around me. I even have a donor.

But I can also take that energy and use it in a healing manner.

I think it is a shame that an "enemy" must always be found out and worked against. That societies must have something to find and destroy to keep them together.

As for the vamp/witch (not wiccan per se) rivalry, some people have it, some don't.

I get along with the witches, but I feel very wary of weres when they are around me.

About the "harm none" thing, pulling teeth is considered good for you due to the harm the tooth could cause in the future, for example infections. The rule is not "do not cause pain" but "do not harm" and there is a difference. I guess that small amounts of blood isn't harmfull in the long run, some witches just don't see this distinction.

To everyone: Thanks for your replies, you've made me feel wecome. Oh, and I just wanted to clarify that this isnt my point of veiw (which is why I kept writing "some" like my life depended on it), I'm a witch and have no problem at all with vampires.

ok...just to add my tuppence worth.

I am a witch, practicing witch, i am positive about life. I love all the gothic history and wear pvc and leather and lots of black...but not all the time. I am extreamly lntuitive and am working on honing my pshycic ability. However, i also have an ongoing fascination with vampires as my other responses on threads will testify.

My veiws as a witch and a vampire fanatic is that there is a balance of power, and to coin my hero's phrase the world is a 'savage garden' think of the lion and the antlelope. Vampires by definition would/do (depending on your belief) need blood to survive, it's their nourishment. We all seek out our nourishment to survive and we are all creatures... we are none of us sublime beings.

Should they exsist i would veiw them as another facet of evolution. So i believe that both philosophies can be incorporated. After all just because as humans we could become prey doesnt make them separate to the circle of life (so doidnt wanna go disney but couldnt think of a better analogy)

Vicereine :lol:

I would call myself a pyro as I do play with fire, etc. I would also say that I am part witch as me and some of my 'witch friends' had done some spells together. We are gothic most of the time and really interested in other kinds (vampires, ghosts....spirits are kewl) that are welling to talk about our simillars and difference.

i Prefer to be an Immortal being such as vampires........being a witch has lots of complications.......fulfiling rituals...offering sacrifices......reciting incantations in strange languages........so much trouble......and guess what lots of witches offer do this to please dark gods....which i believe are vampires.......
Being a vampire is cool
u are seductive
u dont have to die
plus a lots of other benefits without doing so much of a witchcraft thing

Yeah you are probably right with the whole witchcraft thing but it gets fun.....depends on the spells.

are u talking about spells which deals with orgies?
if yes then to hell with being a vampire
i m a he witch now :lol:

:lol: hell yeah! btw, your called a wizard then! :lol: But if you want to be a he witch, then go right to it then!

[FONT=Geneva][COLOR=green] look i have been bh in wicth lives and vampires. i know nothing of this hatred. as far as i can tell we are afrai of the power the others hold.
kat

What makes you think the "dark gods" are vampires?

wiches are in some foke lore protectors of the nature and all tings natural.
vampiers are unatural tings that pray on the life force of others or the nature it self.

ther will be conflict the philofesies are to diffrent.

protector and predator

How nice of you to call us predetors, even though we are not all.
Vampires are just like humans...
we have to feed ourself and we do it with blood or life energy.
Humans do it with meet from animals or plants.
Both are coming from nature itself.
We are not totally different to the human kind,
we simple have other habits.
Don't tell me that witches simply don't eat or use nature.

It is true that wiccan-witches and vampires don;t get along quite well,
but most of that became as it is about a hunderedfifty years ago.
That was the time that wiccans started to interfere with the plans we vamps made to summon our goddes onto this world.

Ever since we simply dont get along...

Greets Mirenguer Artinomicles

Uhm...not to be nitpicking or anything...but there were no wiccans 150 years ago...the wiccan religion was invented by Gerald Gardner in the 1950s...

Being multi-religious, including Wiccan, I can tell you after speaking with many, many others (Wiccans)...... The 'real' Witches, as I suspect so with the 'real' Vamps, are as varied in their approach and beliefs as there are stars in the sky. Some take the vow 'an it harm none', some 'according to free will', some accept Vamps, some fight them. I love them! One of My Wiccan sisters is a donor for a Sanquinarian friend.......there is no rule.

I have a slightly different understanding. Gardner formalized an existing form of the craft. The Craft of the Wise, or Wicca, is much older than Gardner.

It, to Me, is the original religion of Humankind....

Witches are male and female. A Wizzard is one who practices Ritual Magick, which differs from Wicca. Wicca is in service to the Lord and Lady. Ritual Magick is the edification of the human and the human learning to hear and converse with their own guardian angel....

I at sound of mind would have to totally and completely agree with you. Not just because we share the same "religion" or nothing, but that you strongly state you view and hang on to make your point(s). I like that in a person.

-blackladymerlin_05[COLOR=red]

Exactly dear,
ok it being the original religion of human kind i find a bit to much,
but i do agree on you with gardner just selecting some rules out of it and making it wicca.
Don't get me wrong it aint an attack against wicca, it is just the proof that i was right when i wrote my last post.
I allmost thought i lost it but thanks to you Morrigan Wolfe, i'm not.

Greets Mirenguer Artinomicles

how interesting.... mm i agree with the previous answers with regards to the varied nature of Wicca. i myself am a witch but i am not wiccan. When i finally get my damn books unpacked again, i am looking forward to researching other forms of magic... my work stays mainly with the spiritual and astral planes, this is itself is not a 'witches only' path there are christian spiritualist etc.....

As far as the 'versus' part of the question goes..... everyone is different. I always thought that many vampires did not like witches because those witches with empathic ability could tell what they were..... again empathic and aura reading ability not resigned to those who call themselves witches, so.....

It all comes down to myth and war mongering they way most things do.. and if it were true about the anti each other bit then i would have to be fighting myself.. as i am a Psi vamp and a witch.. i find the two compliment each other perfectly.... to my own personal beliefs.....

*wanders off to start chasing herself around the room*

I wouldn't do thta if i were you dear,
It will only make you dizzy.
But indeed you are right,
there are a lot of wiccans and witches that have very much to do with vampires, not only to kille or hunt them, but allso in the lifestyle of them.

We are officially agreeing now.

Greets Mirenguer

after watching underworld...
isn't the werewolf that have a beef with vamps?

[.

We are officially agreeing now.

Greets Mirenguer

[/quote]

i am glad...

phew..*stops running around the room and waits for it to stop spinning*

Hello, i'm glad someone does agree with me... many dont... ah well.. i can be a controversial thing sometimes, i find being contradictory is great amounts of fun.... i have the (mis)fortune of being able to see both sides on a lot of arguements...

ok he goes. Vampires and witches are not enemys becasue i am a witch and a vampire and this is the first time i have said this but i am a vampire and i am reborn every generation and in every past life i have lived i have been a witch and a vampire so no they dont hate the others race.

some people call me a vampire, i get along with witches and wiccans just fine!

underworld wasn't the first time i've heard that, by any means.........

i've known this since i've known about vampires pretty much.

but yeah, i suppose they're supposed to, i've never had anyone with really long fur and big ass canines come to my door calling me out to a brawl though.

i personaly dont see why being wiccan and a vampire is a problem. the rule of wicca is not to harm anyone well if they cut themselves and you drink there blood you are not harming them theyre harming themselves. I cant stop who i am i believe in wicca but my need for blood is to strong to ignore.

Vampyres-vs-Witches
Hmmm...... It is strange to think, that between all things there exists a thin line.
A line that is crossed by the blind who are lost, and seldome realize the point at which things meet on common ground.

I myself have the bennefit of both worlds knowledge. I am a vampyre, and also practice the craft. Does this mean that I should be a walking contradiction? I think not. For it is that line which I walk. Insteat of crossing or breaking it, it becomes blurred. Both sides can live in harmony. I know not of a war between the two.
So be it love that harms none.......But sacrifices must be made.......And are often made freely. Therefor, we we are eligant evolved individuals who enjoy an escape form the bannalities of a common existance. War? What do you know of war? Nothing to say the least. But in knowing nothing, you are not bound. For ignorance is bliss........So speak of what you will. But of war say nothing. It dosen't exist within the darkness, except those at war with ones own inner self...... Live in peace, or the darkness take you. Wise men wage war, but dead men tell no tales.
And alas, there would be no knowledge to speak of then.

No problem with vampires at all..in fact i am good friends with a few

I believe in vampirism, but I see it as more of a disease. I dont neccesarily believe wiccans or witches can cast spells or anything, I have to see to believe.

if u have to see it to believe it...
then what bout the vampirism. u had a friend r what ? I don't get it
<---- can be a lil slow some times

witch whould win easy