okay lots of people claime to be vampires "HLVs and such," or claime them to be real.
so here is the question who claimes to have seen this or believes it exists/
uttuku is the archetype of all vampires in the middle east and europe.
it comes into being if someone dies a violent death, or is improperly buried
it is ugly,
a blood sucking ghost
invincible
only comes out at night
is warded off by holy symbols "Sumerion holy symbols"
historians call this the archetype of all vampires, the oldest record of this type of creature in existance, is this being.
Behold the Uttuku the truest face of the vampire.
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Interesting point u make there Rheun. U said....BLOOD SUCKING GHOST. Meaning it did not live. How exactly can a ghost drink blood when it has no form or matter?
Interesting enough, it plays a little into one of my theories that vampirism is of the SOUL and not the body.
Interesting enough, it plays a little into one of my theories that vampirism is of the SOUL and not the body.
QUOTE (Divine Sin @ May 24 2004, 07:53 AM)
Interesting point u make there Rheun. U said....BLOOD SUCKING GHOST. Meaning it did not live. How exactly can a ghost drink blood when it has no form or matter?
Interesting enough, it plays a little into one of my theories that vampirism is of the SOUL and not the body.
Interesting enough, it plays a little into one of my theories that vampirism is of the SOUL and not the body.
A ghost is not necesarily formless or intangible for that matter. A ghost is merely considered a spirit. Many ghosts in legend can manifest and even become tangible.
I am going to mix legend with physics here
the uttuku is a spirit as intangible as anything, first draining life energy than after it gains some solidness and power it drains blood.
ghosts create cold spots which implies they absorb energy to manifest themselves, which implies that if a ghost were to gain control over this ability it could drain more energy to become more powerfull and possibly drain humans of their energy "which is seen all over the world in different ghost vampire type myths" so what this uttuku implies is simply the oldest name for the phenomonon of a ghost draining energy from the living to become stronger. and after gaining some solidness also draining blood for as fluids would be easier to hold in its form than solids and its may need the electolites and blood plasma to maintaine a solid state as well as other uses.
the uttuku is a spirit as intangible as anything, first draining life energy than after it gains some solidness and power it drains blood.
ghosts create cold spots which implies they absorb energy to manifest themselves, which implies that if a ghost were to gain control over this ability it could drain more energy to become more powerfull and possibly drain humans of their energy "which is seen all over the world in different ghost vampire type myths" so what this uttuku implies is simply the oldest name for the phenomonon of a ghost draining energy from the living to become stronger. and after gaining some solidness also draining blood for as fluids would be easier to hold in its form than solids and its may need the electolites and blood plasma to maintaine a solid state as well as other uses.
Good point, I think that the ghosts stabalizing themselves from manifesting is something that wasn't really looked at.
i am sure there was a lot of information on this in another post, I do not remember where though, any one else remember?
question: why was this moved from "real vampires" to "Modern Vampires" ?
and also if this was mentioned elsewhere "about the Uttuku" I probably said it. ^_^
and also if this was mentioned elsewhere "about the Uttuku" I probably said it. ^_^
Maybe it was moved because there was too many post for sub forum? Or, maybe it was something like, this seems to be something that someone probably wants to read and most people don't go to our subforum.
makes sense to me, perhaps we shall get more replys here than in "real vampires" on this phenomenon.
hope so 
QUOTE (Rhuen @ May 24 2004, 05:00 AM)
okay lots of people claime to be vampires "HLVs and such," or claime them to be real.
so here is the question who claimes to have seen this or believes it exists/
uttuku is the archetype of all vampires in the middle east and europe.
it comes into being if someone dies a violent death, or is improperly buried
it is ugly,
a blood sucking ghost
invincible
only comes out at night
is warded off by holy symbols "Sumerion holy symbols"
historians call this the archetype of all vampires, the oldest record of this type of creature in existance, is this being.
Behold the Uttuku the truest face of the vampire.
so here is the question who claimes to have seen this or believes it exists/
uttuku is the archetype of all vampires in the middle east and europe.
it comes into being if someone dies a violent death, or is improperly buried
it is ugly,
a blood sucking ghost
invincible
only comes out at night
is warded off by holy symbols "Sumerion holy symbols"
historians call this the archetype of all vampires, the oldest record of this type of creature in existance, is this being.
Behold the Uttuku the truest face of the vampire.
This has my interest. You mention the Sumerians being linked to this -- these "Sumerian holy symbols" (could you tell me what symbols exactly you are referring to because I am curious?) -- so to me, it makes sense then just to go as far back as we can - to them - and see what can be found. Here are some things I found available from a quick search below. However, if you are interested, I would suggest perhaps looking into galla (or gallu), among other associations in diferent civilizations (one which I will not mention) the Sumerians seemed to conside them as "police" of the underworld. They can be found in various "myths", some of which are cited below. Also note that udug is believed to be the sumerian precursor for the term. Notice how the term is used in both a negative and positive way depending sometimes on the diety connected with it. Notice the role of the galla also. Someone interested would do will to look into this further I feel.
(I might be missing some sources, this was just quick research that I just did)
QUOTE
The lament for Unug
21-27. That one drew nearer. That one settled upon the ground. Why would he withdraw? Who distorted Unug's good sense and deranged its good counsel? Who smashed its good udug deity? Who struck its good lamma deity too? Who desecrated the fearsome radiance which crowned it? Who brought about mob panic in Unug? Who …… sickness too? Along with the city, the foreign lands ……, who …… in the temple of Unug? That one …….
small no. of lines missing
21-33. Its good udug deities went away, its lamma deities ran off. Its lamma deity (said) "Hide in the open country" and they took foreign paths. The city's patron god turned against it and its shepherd abandoned it. Its guardian spirit, though not an enemy, was exiled (?) to a foreign place. Thus all its most important gods evacuated Unug, they kept away from it. They hid out in the hills and wandered (?) about in the haunted plains. In the city built upon peace, food and drink were overturned like a saman vessel. In the pasture lands a tumultuous noise arose, the asses and sheep were driven away. Elderly people and babies, taking their rest, …… in front ……. They saw …… and slaughtered (?) …….
3 lines fragmentary
small no. of lines missing
http://www-etcsl.orient.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/e...i?text=t.2.2.5#
http://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/myths/tex...lamentunug.html (alternate sopurce)
----
Gilgamesh, Enkidu and the nether world
Warrior Gilgamec, son of Ninsumun, directed his steps on his own to E-kur, the temple of Enlil. He cried before Enlil: "Father Enlil, my ellag fell down into the nether world, my ekidma fell down into Ganzer. Enkidu went down to retrieve them but the nether world has seized him. Namtar did not seize him, the Asag did not seize him; but the nether world has seized him. The udug demon of Nergal, who spares nobody, did not seize him, but the nether world has seized him. He did not fall in battle on the field of manhood, but the nether world has seized him." Father Enlil did not stand by him in the matter, so he went to Eridug.
In Eridug he directed his steps on his own to the temple of Enki. He cried before Enki: "Father Enki, my ellag fell down into the nether world, my ekidma fell down into Ganzer. Enkidu went down to retrieve them but the nether world has seized him. Namtar did not seize him, the Asag did not seize him; but the nether world has seized him. The udug demon of Nergal, who spares nobody, did not seize him, but the nether world has seized him. He did not fall in battle on the field of manhood, but the nether world has seized him." Father Enki stood by him in this matter.
http://www.earth-history.com/Sumer/sumer-g...netherworld.htm
---
Blacki ja Greeni "Gods, Demons and Symbols of Ancient Mesopotamia"
p.85-86:
"galla
The galla (Akkadian gallu) is one of the numerous types of underworld
demons especially responsible for hauling unfortunate humans off to the
underworld. Often mentioned in incantations in enumerations of seven types
of evil demons (sse magic and sorcery), the gallas in one magical text are
said themselves to number seven (see numbers). Inana is accompanied by
gallas on her return from the underworld, and they set off in a pack to
fetch the hapless Dumuzi to the nether regions. Several Sumerian poems
describe the deserted sheepfold of Dumuzi after the gallas have taken him
away.
Like most demons or spirits, gallas could exist in a favourable form
too. In Gudea's hymn the minor god Ig-alima is described as 'the great
galla of Girsu' (see Ningirsu)."
Leicki "A Dictionary of Ancient Near Eastern Mythology"
p. 67:
"Galla - Sumerian underworld demons
The Galla appear in "Inanna's Descent" and the accounts of "Dumuzi's
Death", where they are describedas ruthless beings, who have none of the
attachments and habits of living people and who make sure that nobody
destined for the underworld can escape."
-------
Ördög
The main names for the devil in Hungarian is ördög, which in a more archaic spelling was urdung. It appears to mean the "lord of the dead". (Dög =carion, while Ur=lord). Today the term Dög is only used for
dead animals and human dead is called halot or holt. However who is to say that in the past they were as
specialized in their terminology as today's Hungarian. The closest associations with the word are found in Parthian, Manichean religion where the "ertenk" word was used for the devil. The Scythian Parthians came from north of Persia and conquered and ruled the Persian Empire and the Near East for some 500 years. The Turkic languages also used a word somewhat similar in the name Erlik Khan, (d >l?) for the lord of the dead. Even further back in time in ancient Mesopotamia the Sumerians called the demons Udug, without the r. This same word was borrowed by the Assyrians and Babylonians as "Utuk-ku". The Sumerian term UD also meant a hollow, a hole in the ground similar to Hungarian ODU, meaning a hole or hollow in a tree.
---
http://users.cwnet.com/millenia/devil.htm
KUL, GOLYHO
A variant of the name, using the other word for death, which meant sickness, also in some related languages, is "Hal, holt" in Hungarian is found among the linguistic relatives of the Hungarian language, the Finno-Ugric languages as "KUL". Some FinnUgor languages call the chief devil to be KUL-ATER. There is an insect that lives in the forest in Europe which drops on your head and bores into your skull, causing certain sicknesses. This is also called in Hungarian KUL-ancs while another special type of demon or evil spirit is called GOLY-HO. This same term for devil is also found in Sumerian, from ancient Mesopotamia, as the "GAL-LU" demons, based on the word for death. Now this word sounds quite similar also to the English - Scottish ghoul name.
----
Udug - a guardian spirit and good genie
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:nqhMU...+sumerian&hl=en
----
http://www.enctype.de/Daemonen/1inhaludu.htm
----
Udu
( Udug,Akkadian Utukku Utukki )
Mesopotamian demons.
Muttabriqu - Flashes of Lightening
Sarabda - Bailiff
Rabishu - Croucher
Tirid - Expulsion
Idiptu - Wind
Bennu - Fits
Sidana - Staggers
Miqit - Stroke
Bel Uri - Lord of the Roof
Umma - Feverhot
Libu - Scab
gallu-demons - can frequently alter their form.
umu-demons - fiercely bare their teeth.
http://www.mythome.org/mideastg.html
---
21-27. That one drew nearer. That one settled upon the ground. Why would he withdraw? Who distorted Unug's good sense and deranged its good counsel? Who smashed its good udug deity? Who struck its good lamma deity too? Who desecrated the fearsome radiance which crowned it? Who brought about mob panic in Unug? Who …… sickness too? Along with the city, the foreign lands ……, who …… in the temple of Unug? That one …….
small no. of lines missing
21-33. Its good udug deities went away, its lamma deities ran off. Its lamma deity (said) "Hide in the open country" and they took foreign paths. The city's patron god turned against it and its shepherd abandoned it. Its guardian spirit, though not an enemy, was exiled (?) to a foreign place. Thus all its most important gods evacuated Unug, they kept away from it. They hid out in the hills and wandered (?) about in the haunted plains. In the city built upon peace, food and drink were overturned like a saman vessel. In the pasture lands a tumultuous noise arose, the asses and sheep were driven away. Elderly people and babies, taking their rest, …… in front ……. They saw …… and slaughtered (?) …….
3 lines fragmentary
small no. of lines missing
http://www-etcsl.orient.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/e...i?text=t.2.2.5#
http://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/myths/tex...lamentunug.html (alternate sopurce)
----
Gilgamesh, Enkidu and the nether world
Warrior Gilgamec, son of Ninsumun, directed his steps on his own to E-kur, the temple of Enlil. He cried before Enlil: "Father Enlil, my ellag fell down into the nether world, my ekidma fell down into Ganzer. Enkidu went down to retrieve them but the nether world has seized him. Namtar did not seize him, the Asag did not seize him; but the nether world has seized him. The udug demon of Nergal, who spares nobody, did not seize him, but the nether world has seized him. He did not fall in battle on the field of manhood, but the nether world has seized him." Father Enlil did not stand by him in the matter, so he went to Eridug.
In Eridug he directed his steps on his own to the temple of Enki. He cried before Enki: "Father Enki, my ellag fell down into the nether world, my ekidma fell down into Ganzer. Enkidu went down to retrieve them but the nether world has seized him. Namtar did not seize him, the Asag did not seize him; but the nether world has seized him. The udug demon of Nergal, who spares nobody, did not seize him, but the nether world has seized him. He did not fall in battle on the field of manhood, but the nether world has seized him." Father Enki stood by him in this matter.
http://www.earth-history.com/Sumer/sumer-g...netherworld.htm
---
Blacki ja Greeni "Gods, Demons and Symbols of Ancient Mesopotamia"
p.85-86:
"galla
The galla (Akkadian gallu) is one of the numerous types of underworld
demons especially responsible for hauling unfortunate humans off to the
underworld. Often mentioned in incantations in enumerations of seven types
of evil demons (sse magic and sorcery), the gallas in one magical text are
said themselves to number seven (see numbers). Inana is accompanied by
gallas on her return from the underworld, and they set off in a pack to
fetch the hapless Dumuzi to the nether regions. Several Sumerian poems
describe the deserted sheepfold of Dumuzi after the gallas have taken him
away.
Like most demons or spirits, gallas could exist in a favourable form
too. In Gudea's hymn the minor god Ig-alima is described as 'the great
galla of Girsu' (see Ningirsu)."
Leicki "A Dictionary of Ancient Near Eastern Mythology"
p. 67:
"Galla - Sumerian underworld demons
The Galla appear in "Inanna's Descent" and the accounts of "Dumuzi's
Death", where they are describedas ruthless beings, who have none of the
attachments and habits of living people and who make sure that nobody
destined for the underworld can escape."
-------
Ördög
The main names for the devil in Hungarian is ördög, which in a more archaic spelling was urdung. It appears to mean the "lord of the dead". (Dög =carion, while Ur=lord). Today the term Dög is only used for
dead animals and human dead is called halot or holt. However who is to say that in the past they were as
specialized in their terminology as today's Hungarian. The closest associations with the word are found in Parthian, Manichean religion where the "ertenk" word was used for the devil. The Scythian Parthians came from north of Persia and conquered and ruled the Persian Empire and the Near East for some 500 years. The Turkic languages also used a word somewhat similar in the name Erlik Khan, (d >l?) for the lord of the dead. Even further back in time in ancient Mesopotamia the Sumerians called the demons Udug, without the r. This same word was borrowed by the Assyrians and Babylonians as "Utuk-ku". The Sumerian term UD also meant a hollow, a hole in the ground similar to Hungarian ODU, meaning a hole or hollow in a tree.
---
http://users.cwnet.com/millenia/devil.htm
KUL, GOLYHO
A variant of the name, using the other word for death, which meant sickness, also in some related languages, is "Hal, holt" in Hungarian is found among the linguistic relatives of the Hungarian language, the Finno-Ugric languages as "KUL". Some FinnUgor languages call the chief devil to be KUL-ATER. There is an insect that lives in the forest in Europe which drops on your head and bores into your skull, causing certain sicknesses. This is also called in Hungarian KUL-ancs while another special type of demon or evil spirit is called GOLY-HO. This same term for devil is also found in Sumerian, from ancient Mesopotamia, as the "GAL-LU" demons, based on the word for death. Now this word sounds quite similar also to the English - Scottish ghoul name.
----
Udug - a guardian spirit and good genie
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:nqhMU...+sumerian&hl=en
----
http://www.enctype.de/Daemonen/1inhaludu.htm
----
Udu
( Udug,Akkadian Utukku Utukki )
Mesopotamian demons.
Muttabriqu - Flashes of Lightening
Sarabda - Bailiff
Rabishu - Croucher
Tirid - Expulsion
Idiptu - Wind
Bennu - Fits
Sidana - Staggers
Miqit - Stroke
Bel Uri - Lord of the Roof
Umma - Feverhot
Libu - Scab
gallu-demons - can frequently alter their form.
umu-demons - fiercely bare their teeth.
http://www.mythome.org/mideastg.html
---
Also, some "dream-like" craziness I feel maybe related to this:
white eggplants
"authorities"
garden
color turns to grey
black smoke clouds
dead garden
scorpions (?)
The front-middle right (as seen from entering from the front) section is "caught". The rear-middle left is "free" (?) .
Mind where you sit on the "train" (?) ?
Please excuse the small craziness, I felt maybe it would be helpful to someone here one day- (I have to try just in case). Sorry if I freaked anyone out, my appologies.
QUOTE
(I might be missing some sources, this was just quick research that I just did)
I would like to say, that does not look like quick research but it seems to be quite insiteful. I like the last part too,
QUOTE
The front-middle right (as seen from entering from the front) section is "caught". The rear-middle left is "free" (?) .
Mind where you sit on the "train" (?) ?
Mind where you sit on the "train" (?) ?
I think I may understand it in a sense. I'm not sure how to explain it though. In my ideals it seems that in life if you sit down in the middle you are "caught" because you can't make it to the "rear" which may be the beginning or the end of life, but either way, in the beginning of life you are free because you are not owned by anyone yet and at the end of life when you enter the afterlife you are free because no one can own you. (Well maybe someone can own you but I'm not really going to put views about the underworld)
But anyway,
QUOTE
Please excuse the small craziness, I felt maybe it would be helpful to someone here one day- (I have to try just in case). Sorry if I freaked anyone out, my appologies
When you said this, I don't think this is going to help me but I know it was inciteful.
QUOTE
I would like to say, that does not look like quick research but it seems to be quite insiteful. I like the last part too,
Thanks. No, it took maybe 30 minutes to get that.
QUOTE
I think I may understand it in a sense. I'm not sure how to explain it though. In my ideals it seems that in life if you sit down in the middle you are "caught" because you can't make it to the "rear" which may be the beginning or the end of life, but either way, in the beginning of life you are free because you are not owned by anyone yet and at the end of life when you enter the afterlife you are free because no one can own you. (Well maybe someone can own you but I'm not really going to put views about the underworld)
But anyway,
But anyway,
Thank you for that - I did not think to consider it in that way. But if there is a great misinterpretation on my part or something that I missed (and this is likely given the approximate date), it would not be the first time. It's really hard for me to explain this... But it might be for one particular person - like a warning - I don't know. But I would be remiss if I did not attempt to share it because of how strongly everything seemed to fit together - not to mention the matter that seemed suggested.
QUOTE
When you said this, I don't think this is going to help me but I know it was inciteful.
Perhaps what you shared is what it more means, it certainly matches the other imagery. I learned a few things from this one already (what white eggplants are, etc.) - it is of that nature - so maybe it is more about learning. I certainly already learned some from this thread and the experience alone.
Take care.
I have a tendency to get my Akkadian and Sumerion myths mixed up as they had many of the same gods and demons only with slightly different names "The Rome and Greece of even further back, so to speak"
The sacred symbol in Akkadian beleif and possibly Sumerion "later Sumerion" I believe that helf back the uttuku is "ironically" a possible pre-cursor of the ankh and cross. it was the two sided battle axe atop bull horns "it doesn't look like bull horns to me, but thats what the symbol represented"
this was the devine symbol of the gods and held back many demons includeing the uttuku.
The sacred symbol in Akkadian beleif and possibly Sumerion "later Sumerion" I believe that helf back the uttuku is "ironically" a possible pre-cursor of the ankh and cross. it was the two sided battle axe atop bull horns "it doesn't look like bull horns to me, but thats what the symbol represented"
this was the devine symbol of the gods and held back many demons includeing the uttuku.
QUOTE
I believe that helf back the uttuku is "ironically" a possible pre-cursor of the ankh and cross.
What do you mean when you say pre-cursor? Do you mean it pushed forward the ankh and the cross, because ankh is life but it is in the shape of a cross with the ring on top and the cross, well, that always held back demons and such, plus it was the representation of a messiah. But then again, the ankh is life and a vampire ghost is death in every sense, considering that the vampire was already dead. Hmm. Explain?
QUOTE (Rhuen @ Jun 24 2004, 04:53 PM)
I have a tendency to get my Akkadian and Sumerion myths mixed up as they had many of the same gods and demons only with slightly different names "The Rome and Greece of even further back, so to speak"
The sacred symbol in Akkadian beleif and possibly Sumerion "later Sumerion" I believe that helf back the uttuku is "ironically" a possible pre-cursor of the ankh and cross. it was the two sided battle axe atop bull horns "it doesn't look like bull horns to me, but thats what the symbol represented"
this was the devine symbol of the gods and held back many demons includeing the uttuku.
The sacred symbol in Akkadian beleif and possibly Sumerion "later Sumerion" I believe that helf back the uttuku is "ironically" a possible pre-cursor of the ankh and cross. it was the two sided battle axe atop bull horns "it doesn't look like bull horns to me, but thats what the symbol represented"
this was the devine symbol of the gods and held back many demons includeing the uttuku.
Yes, I made many mistakes and probably will make many more unfortunately. No problem. (Well... at least not one to be avoided entirely) Now this symbol, the bulls horns have many different meanings and associations. One might be the "bull of heaven". As does the ax, which brings to mind gilgamesh.
But, could you please provide a link, source, or something so I know exactly what you intend to refer to and in what context your source takes it? I am curious. Are you perhaps speaking of cuneiform (writing) when you talk of the horns not looking like horns to you?
take a rectangle, cut a half circle out of the top and middle, and you get the "bull horns" now for the alter they placed a two headed battle axe in the middle standing up.
as a possible pre-cursor it means the shape in relation to devinity staying with in the minds of new relegeons and adopting it only changeing it a little " a theory some archeologist came up with"
I remembered this from a historical art class I took in college, I will see If I can find a picture of it again on the net.
as a possible pre-cursor it means the shape in relation to devinity staying with in the minds of new relegeons and adopting it only changeing it a little " a theory some archeologist came up with"
I remembered this from a historical art class I took in college, I will see If I can find a picture of it again on the net.
QUOTE (Rhuen @ Jun 28 2004, 03:30 PM)
take a rectangle, cut a half circle out of the top and middle, and you get the "bull horns" now for the alter they placed a two headed battle axe in the middle standing up.
as a possible pre-cursor it means the shape in relation to devinity staying with in the minds of new relegeons and adopting it only changeing it a little " a theory some archeologist came up with"
I remembered this from a historical art class I took in college, I will see If I can find a picture of it again on the net.
as a possible pre-cursor it means the shape in relation to devinity staying with in the minds of new relegeons and adopting it only changeing it a little " a theory some archeologist came up with"
I remembered this from a historical art class I took in college, I will see If I can find a picture of it again on the net.
Art and archeology, not a bad mix really.
Ok thank you for explaining.
your welcome. ^_^
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