alright i wasnt sure where to put this so i put it here
i always wanted to be a necromancer cus they can comunicate with the dead and raise the dead and some junk so i was thinking about this what if i realy was a necromancer what would i do with that power
well all i could think of was world domination...

well what would u you do if you could do that??? :devil1:

*grins* I'd summon vast ammounts of dead to take over the world, and from a throne of flesh, bone and corpses, I'd rule what little of humanity I left alive, all my friends and family would ahve their own parts of the world to run... or...

I'd be a goody toosh-oos, and work for the CIA or something and use it to kick ass and use in tricky missions and what have you...

It would be an awsome power to have though...

I would help people talk with their lost loved ones... I know how it feels to feel the pain of losing someone, indirectly of course...

I think its rediculous and stupid. Zombies are best left to the movies. And the dead are best left in the ground.

in actuality necromancy has never been so much raiseing the dead and talking with them, thats mostly role playing and books and such, in actual documents about this form of mysticism it is useing the discarded remains of the soul to perform magic, such as useing bones, and decaying body parts, "much like a few of the items I have listed in the spells thread" and in the Egyption form that includes useing ghosts to perform magic "the whole three parts of the soul thing".
so they might raise the dead but its only to use them for there energy to do something else.

Now might not be a bad time to talk about John Dee...over to you, Rhuen. You're better at explaining these things.

[COLOR=red]I'd do it....Which leads me to a question...

Is all that really real, Necromancy and all, especially the part about raising the dead.

If it is, awesome, but can the dead that you'd be raising be brought back to their original self, like you and me, or would they be just a corpse?

I know nothing about Necromancy, this is why I'm asking...

no, necromancy has no control over the soul, if a body was raised it would be a re-animated corpse and thats all, it would only have what information the necromancer programed in to it. as I said necromancy isn't really about raising the dead but useing the dead to perform magic.

I don't have time right now to explaine John Dee so go for it Nightvision or wait untill tomarrow "late tomarrow". when I might have more time.

the forces of death are too strong to be screwed around with. the voodoo cults use their zombies as guards and such. and if you're trying to help someone cope with the loss of a loved one, don't. it will cause more harm than help. they won't come back as the way they were before they died. they'll be as they were lying in the cold damp earth. and the lords hades and osiris wouldn't exactly allow their eternal subjects to leave their realms.

Well, it was a question I just had to ask...I didn't think it was practical or anytihng, I just wanted to know for sure...

when it comes to real-life, i'll go with that. let the dead and their body parts rest.

if, however, this was in a game (preferably computer game with awesome visual effects and stuff), i'd go for this

the dead should NEVER be allowed to rest in games :D

I'm not quite sure what I would do. Part of it I think would be great disrespect for the souls that you pull, or try to communicate with. It's called a final rest for a reason. But on the other hand, if that power was truly in existance... Well of course I would use it. Mysteries such as necromancy often pull people into them. And I (<--) believe that in most cases innocent, or rather nieve, people are pulled into them by an evil force, like what happens a great deal in beginning wicca, and are hurt beyond belief. So who knows.

1. Voodoo zombies were never the walking dead, "they wanted you to think that" it has been researched "some one escaped" it is a poisen that creates a death like state and the person is than dug up, revived from the poisen and than used as a slave.

2. Hades was a glorified door man no better than Charon and Cerburus, they guarded the realm of the dead and looked over it for Styx and Herodus.
Styx: the ancient Titaness/primordial goddess "depending on version" who created the under world, "the river was named after her". in fact in greek mythology a god who made a promis in the name of Styx was bound to keep it.
Herodus: created from Khaos he/it is the essence of death, a being feared and even hated by the gods of olympis as even gods were bound by death and this being was the very essence of it.
Osiris is a late dynesty god, despite popular myths saying Anubis is his son, Anubis dates back further as the ruler of the under world "He who stands upon the mountain in the west over looking the underworld> in the old Anubis myth he in fact conjured the under world and created order out of it so the dead could rest there. it was later that Osiris was worshiped "it is believed by historians that Osiris was a nicer image and more lenient of the dead, "the feather got heavier if you know what I mean" as opposed to Anubis' day where it was said those that didn't live an exact balanced life "not too bad and not too good" and didn't recite the book of the dead perfectly ceased to exist. Osiris was nicer and more lenient.

also as for necromancy and what it is. here is a sample of necromancy

"Spirit Spear"

Ingredients,

1. Leg bone of a Mare "upper leg bone that connects with thigh": Bleached in the sun for seven days after being thouraly cleaned in pure water.

2. 13 strands of stallion's tail hair

3. six cat fangs "three pairs"

4. a full set of human teeth

5. White Buriel clay

6. two silver knife blades removed from their handles and welded together at the base.

"make sure to use cherry wood for the welding fire" yes a much slower method of welding but is the only method that will work"

now ground up the human teeth to dust.

take one strand of the Stallion's hair and connect the cat fangs with it like a necklace "little holes in base if fangs with hair stranded through them"

now drill a hole in the upper thicker part of the mare's leg bone that goes down five to six inches "or just before the bone becames more narrow"

now take the cat fang necklace and place in hole "one tooth on top the next" "not side by side so in other words the hole needs to be narrow"

now pour the human tooth dust down in the hole to fill up the space.

now with that down take the white buriel clay and cap of the hole "and fill it in a little more in case their is too much space "however when done when you gently skake the spear you should hear a rattle sound" "but only slightly: a ghostly sort of sound"

now while the clay is still soft in bed one end of the double sided knife you created to the base/junction of the two blades in the clay: this is the conduit/spear head.

now makeing sure the blade stays straight allow to dry. "remember after this never ever under any circumstances allow the spear to get wet" water could counter act the spear.

also the twelve other strands of stallion hair are to be tied together with each other as a spiral then looped around the mare bone from the skinny end up to the base of the thick part as a spiral, the extra length of the hair wraps around the base of the thick part and twice over the top "once over each side of the top on opposite sides of he knife blade"

now you have a spirit spear.

all you need to do to use it, is hold it at its skinny base with your writing han, go into some place haunted, "the rattle will attract ghosts, and by stabbing the spear into any Apparition that approaches its energy will be drained and transferred into your body."

warning: do not stab a demon its evil will transfer as well, and some stronger ghosts may also transfer their last emotion before death "terror, sadness..." and sometimes bits of it memory could transfer to avoid this never completly drain a ghost until it vanishes, pull out the spear when the ghost starts to blink "appear and dissapear".

That is really very interesting...

interesting.
to me though it sounds a bit like last time my brother asked me for cheats for a PS2 game and i was like

okay, to get infinite health and ammo, pause the game, and now press
X, O, square, triangle, triangle, R2, L1, select, square, O, O, X, triangle, square, square, X, O, L2, L2, R1, X, L1, R2, O, square, triangle, triangle, O, X, square

and he actually believed me and went through all that and expected the cheat to work.
my opinion is that you'd need a pretty weak perception of your position in the universe and the purpose of your existence to pursue things like this in anything other than your imagination. or at least be really bored and need stories to keep your mind busy
not saying it to offend anyone, it's just how i see it.
there's enough freaky shit about everday life without bringing in thoughts of raising the dead and not fully draining spirits because it might infuse the caster with its final thoughts of terror and sadness and stuff

perhaps I should point out that is old superstition taken from a list of simular items, and many others. Like some really rediculas immortality potions 'a chemist poisoned himself trying one out" as a hobby I collect stories and descriptions of such objects.

I DID NOT: list it with the intent of someone going out and trying it, its there to show what necromancy is and how those old world Necromancers did these things.

I would like for this other-kin section to remain open minded to every thing, and it will seroiusly annoy me if any one starts going around the threads here and calling any one crazy for believing or saying things about these subjects as that would make some feel uneasy about revealing them and prevent them from telling there stories and this would become a very boreing place indeed.

so lets keep an open mind if your going to post in these sections.

edit: I am not saying its not okay to argue the rights and wrongs of the morals or origens or descriptions of anything in this section, but for threads like this about magic and myth its already a general consensus that its not real, that doesn't make it any less interesting and worth discussing, but I think it best that when discussing and saying you don't believe in something not to state it in such a way that you make it seem you believe any one that disagrees with you is stupid.

It's still very interesting, that little ritual thing you posted...

You could always go to work for the Umbrella Corporation.

point taken Rhuen, i will bear that in mind. it's funny how i despise absolution, yet it is very often present in my answers
*poke* did you know that poetry works its own magics too? i killed the sun once for 3 days with nothing but a poem ;) got any articles on that? heheh
you'd be a good resource to draw upon if i'm ever involved in the development of a gothicy vampire game or something heheh

no offense taken, its just the way you worded it.

also the sun thing, I do have several spells and rituals that I found that supposedly cause solar and lunar eclipses, "None work to my knowledge"

the spells thread is where I put most the spells and item "how tos" includeing potions and such, but if you look closely you'll notice its near impossible if not impossible in most cases for any one to actually do the ones I posted.

Hey do you guys know a spell or a web site that I could find a spell to communicate with the dead?

which method do you want?

actual awake and faceing to talk?

a trance?

a dream vision?

possessed? "not recommended"

through a medium?

through an object? "real old style before Ouija boards?"

or another method?

actual awake and faceing to talk

you may want to persue some other method of communication with spirits, that form you want, the spells and rituals are not pretty.

and they tend to have bad side effects "like opening a really big door thats even harder to close than it was to open in the first place."

Ok, ummm maybe though a trance then?

Hey and do you guys know where the spell thread is?

I'll look up the trance thing.

as for the spell thread. It called "spells for the never ending tomarrow" its here in other-kin but if you don't see it on the first page, go down to the bottom of the list of threads in this section, to your far right you'll see a drop down box that says in it "last 30 days" click on it and change it to "from the beginning" there will now be 4 pages instead of one. the spells thread will be in one of them "as will many other topics" however once you enter a thread and leave it, you will have to re-enter the drop down box to get back to those older pages.

however it should be on the first page as I entered something in it just the other day.

I think about world's enslavement...have you ever heard about Adolfo Louis Constanza?

They work, but only in those days when those black wizards at NASA have used their mystical "Eclipse Charts" to contact the Outer Gods, and make the sun dissapear behind the moon...
Meddling with science...there are things better left undisturbed...

Thank-you for going to look up that trance for me Rhuen :_

okay there are two main types of trance spirit communications

1. Temporary Possession
and
2. Vision state communication

temporary possession is just as it sounds a spirit temporarily controls the user and talks through them, this is most often done with a medium to be talked through, as doing this form alone is a "pain in the ass" and can cause maddness as you are affectively talking with your self in a sense.
and this has two sub-catagories also,
'eradic" and "controled" the eradic is more common around the world, its the form in which the medium gets up dances around, jabbers, walks about and acts crazy,
the controlled is a changed in eyes and voice and is usually done only for stronger types of beings by well trained shamans.

the vision state, is the user enters a dreamy like state and the world looks fuzzy and they can hear the voice(s) of the spirit(s).
however this form varies greatly in method around the world. and has legal problems "the use of hallucigens" and is only aloud by law in those forms to be done for religeous reasons "in which case you would need to be a member of those faiths and than you would have a shaman to tell you how to do them and not need me or someone else on line to help you."
however other forms of vision state are possible although mostly only so for shamans who have experience "as the best form for multiple communications rather than the once in a life as the hallucigens are often for" but these people have life training and the method while I have it down might be dangerouse for a person 'total brain f*ck" as you would have little control
"this makes my controversal inner beast ritual look like a bleedin Ouija board by comparrison" for those of you that remember that or have seen it re-posted in the spells thread.

so tweak if your just looking for a casual 'talk with the dead" than you should look up a medium or try a Ouija board or something because even the trance "which I felt would be the safest" is down right crazy.
and in fact risk in the controled form with out proper training of loseing you body to a stronger spirit than your own.

basically as others have said, its best to leave the spirits in peace "especially if you lack the training or don't have a good reason to bother the."

someone seriously shat on your doorstep as

a. necromancey never uses teeth or bone (though the parts maybe what you revive)

b. necromancy always includes a amythist (which nullifies the willpower of the dead making them your permanent slaves)

c. necromancy will have a herb of som sort i.e. wormmould, ashpholt, wolf bane...

d. the only hair ever used is unicorn hair (and/or the thing your trying to revive)

e. i'm the local necromancy lord here (theory based) but i'm not as good when it comes to mancy other subjects as Rhuen (but better at shadow faemons and nagas he's better at dragons, giants other daemons... *scowls at Rhuen*)

which book/grimiore/canticle did you get this from (i beat your ass from here to hell again Rhuen :devilflip: )

Tweak-freakin: you might also want to look into a medium and the use of pendulums to communicate with the other side. More often than not you'll reach an spirit that's been with you for sometime and they're often the best resource for learning your own abilities. Be carefull though - this is a very easy method for meditation and communication and there are spirits that will lead you astray.

I completely agree with Rhuen though - If you don't have a really good teacher to show you how and a really good reason to disturb them you're just calling a world of hurt down on yourself.

"Necromancy" I am useing the term loosely to in-compass alot of groups not just "necromancers" which is the European group that deals with the dead, the spirit spear is not European magic, it is in fact Chinese magic. "The teeth have great power in there forms magic as do any parts of a horse."

"most my magic information is Eastern in nature"

hmm just expressing the actual meaning of this thread

also they use topaz'z which can make them powerfuller (gives them an IQ above 40 estimated (by me as it just says they are more intellegent))

crystals also are used to destroy the dead oif enemy necromancers (something to do with purity)

Soul Blighter I am going to have to ask for a source on this stuff now, because its staring to sound like something one would read out of a "Monster Manual" or other RPG description. rather than the vague sounding descriptions and such that accompany myths and ancient grimoires.


"to my experience death magic and crystal magic don't noramally work together unless it involves spirit calling"

Necro=death
mancy=use of/ manipulater of/ user of

thus I use the word in its translational meaning, as do many researchers, necromancy not necisarilly necromancers, like geomancy, which is use of earth magic is used to also referr to eastern Tao magic not just european geomancers.

I am not too familer with these two forms in europe but am very familier with them in Asia.

like this I pulled from the spells thread "and fits here" even though some call it sympathedic magic.

and now for something completly useless.

"how to turn into a human"

ingredients "one complete human skull"

and a rope made from human hair "same gender as the skull"

and enough silk to wrap around your body

now take this skull and make sure all the teeth and lower jaw are in place.

bleach the skull in the sun untill it is both perfectly dry and stark white.

now smooth the crown of the skull so smooth so that when silk is passed over it it will not snag. "the silk is handy but not of any mystical importance yet"

now tie the hair as a little rope through the ear and jaw holes so it will both hold the lower jaw on "but not lock it shut" and will fit snuggly around your lower jaw so the skull can be worn like a helmet.

with the skull snuggly in place wrap your self in the silk like a cocoon, and singing the words "Kira keen Kira keen" over and over again, do two back flips, a forward flip and dance in a circle on your back legs three times, and repeat"

and in a flash you should take on the form of the human whose skull you used and your head hair should be the same color as the hair used. and you should be wearing a robe the same color as the silk you were wraped in.

"I don't know of any modern version which would grant more modern cloths"

now for some Japanese "necromancy"

a pointless waste of time:

ingredients

1. cleaned cat skull : you can not be the one that killed it, or know who did, basically natural causes, even some old roadkill. "must have lower jaw"

2. cleaned mouse or rat skull: no restriction you could have eaten the mouse/rat for all it matters "must have lower jaw"

3. two poles made from japanese steel, one two inches shorter than the other.

now what to do, go to a grave yard two hours before midnight, go to the exact center of the graveyard "or as close as possible" "must be on dirt" Stick the poles in the ground about five inches apart, place the mouse/rat skull on the shorter pole and the cat skull on the longer one. make the mouse/rat skull face away from the cat skull, but make sure the cat skull is faceing the mouse skull "back of mouse skull"
now watch them and chant in whisper, kim kira kim kira "over and over again in a rythem but keep it to a breath of a whisper and try to focuse on the skulls "both of them"

now the fun part happens when you nod off for a moment, "not going to ruin the surprise for you all'

Hmmm...It would be very unique and interesting to be able to do something like that... :rolleyes:

I would take a large group of the dead and make a movie with them, so I wouldn't have to pay the extras.

Hypothetical only, but just learn. World domination by force (or any way, since without force, power seems meaningless when replaced with reason) does not appeal to me. Disturbing the dead unpolitely does not appeal to me either. It doesn't make sense to me to get "people" to do things they don't want to do. That won't last says history. But if they want to do them.... Well, then there is no problem, is there?

I'll just add this little bit of info... necromancers dates back to persia, greece and rome where it was used as a form of divination... Necromancers do exist today as a faction of the occult.. they don't raise zombies but they study death, decay and so on.. the draw on the energy of the dead, called the "death ethers" using their "will" as it is called they direct it towards a certain goal that they would like to achieve ((making someone go blind)) but because they are so close to the dead the necromancers do suffer ill effects.. they become gaunt and lose hair.. pretty much getting the side effects of age earlier than you are supposed to by medical standards.. so i just thought i would put that in your mind.. do some research on necromancy.. i did and i found it quite interesting..

and a link for more indepth information - The Study of Death

lol looking at two skulls and chanting some random words isn't going to do anything....

that isn't necromancy that is just someone who has too much time on their hands...

Necromancers don't date back to anything other than in name only. Please, please point me in the direction of anyone who has brought the dead back to life. As usual you won't be able to.

The dead are dead. I miss my mother terribly at times but she isn't coming back. I have my memories and I happy with that - I don't need to torment myself with charlatans and liars.

I never stated that they could bring the dead back to life.. in fact i think i specifically stated that they could not.. necromancy is a form of divination or using the energies of death to their will.. not saying that i believe it works for i have neither seen nor done the practices myself i have only researched.

In India it seems there is a different sort of necromancy. For some reason the spirits of the dead come forcefully inside people, and around villages. Some of the ancient villages of India range back thousands of years.

I vaguely remember my cousin telling me once about a brahmin saddhu (Brahman priest) who was called into a village to perform rituals in order to keep the dead out! Meaning that they were doing something opposite of actual necromancy, instead of trying to contact souls, they were trying to keep them out.

Another one of my cousins remember telling me in the same village, that they saw some sort of mystical woman who was just floating, he said he was probably drunk, but he doesn't really remember. This same cousin also spoke of a woman who was possessed by an unrestful soul, who had taken over her body. A brahmin priest was called to help her, and finally, a year later the soul does not bother her anymore.

This could all be fake, but I kind of believed it, because my cousins were freaked out as I've never seen them before.

-Gaurav

P.S. Oh yeah one more thing in the city of Bombay (a very HUGE city) we were walking around at nighttime around the beach. Then we were bike riding and walking around the perimeters of the city and a few of my cousins would absolutely not DARE approach this one building, they kept saying how the daughter of the devil lives there. I just sort of laughed and said "Yeaah riiiight", but I'm not really sure anymore whether it was real or not.

I doth believe the name alone told you that :lol:

I am trying to broden these topic to include ALL forms of death based mysticism around the world not limit it to just "necromancers"

I never said the skull thing would work "I know for a fact is doesn't" but remember The middle east and europe are not the only ones who practiced this type of magic, and the forms of the other parts of the world have their own rules and such that may and easily could contradict those of another nation's "necro-magic"

you know for a fact it doesn't work.. why try it out yourself :D and i know that there are far more types of magic or mystisism that deals with the deal, even the voodoo religion who allow spirits to enter their bodies.. and here in america - at our time the police work with psychics who can see things that the dead have by communicating with them in order to solve the crime... these kinds of things come in a wide variety of forms, as do the people and beliefs of the world..

to get back on topic . . necromancy from what i've read was mostly used to learn from them. por exempli gratia; calling on einstien to learin theories that he didn't get to pen or juxtoposing ideas and suspicions.

http://www23.brinkster.com/falcis/spells.html
this is an interesting website dealing with necromancy specificly, wirtten by a practicioner.

I personally do not practice necromancy.
i Do practice summoning (daemonology especially) though :

incidently, when summoning spirits, in necromancy or in other branches of summoning practice, there are 3 primary modes of interaction:
evokation - bringing the spirit into your pressence. for an infinate number or purposes, and via an infinate number of possible means. I would add (as an adjuct to conventional evokation) my own favorite technique which is : instead of bringing the spirit to the practicioner, you travel to the spirit via astral projection and a connection with said spirit. To me this just seems more tactfull.
invokation - taking the spirit into the self. also sometimes called 'channeling'. this is like posession, except you could say posession is against one's will, and so posession would be like the 'rape' version of invokation.
transvokation - this is like invokation, except that the body is shared between the spirit and the normal inhabitant. a connection of minds, where the practicioner and the spirit feel as though they are split factions of one greater conciousness.


Kath