hey,
iv always wanted to know why would they hide, they cant be afraid of us there stronger and immortal so why hide.

Who says they're stronger?
Apparently you havent heard of the term "superior numbers".
Ever see the old horror movies where the villagers come out with torches and pitchforks?
Great, now lets put that in a modern scenario with shotguns and rifles.
Kinda lose the mysterious edge that comes with being a loner, no?
Yes.

I think this thread "the linked to thread"
describes many valid points regarding what problems a vampire would have and reasons it would need to hide

http://forum.vampires.com/index.php?showtopic=14213

yes but our everyday weapons wouldnt kill a vampire and they would still have great numbers plus its a known fact that a vampire would be stronger in order to successfully hunt down and kill a human. lestat had it right why hide there stronger than us and in most aspects more superier to us. just coz theres more of us doesnt mean we could win it wouldnt take long if they wanted to, to turn the whole race of course that wouldnt help them though

except they have a major weakness, the sun, while they sleep all it would take is ultra vilet expsure and poof "no more vampire" I could see a major military campaigne utilizeing ultra violet strobe lights , and explosives to expose their lairs, on a one to one basis something like a vampire may seem supperior, but if it came down to it and such things exposed them selves as real and decided they should be in charge then the very next day they would be extinct,

and that doesn't include the X factor, if vampires were real than what else might be real, what other un-imaginable horrors might have a problem with vampires takeing over the world and treating humans as cattle.
remember it was humans that made this world the strange and interesting place it is now, and its all due to human inguiniuty changeing with every generation, a static population of immortals might like things to stay the same way with the same laws, and design styles and such for a very long time, and other beings far more powerfull than vampires might not like such boreing conditions and prefer humans who keep these beings intertained through out the ages by creating constant change.

No offence but you guys read to much Anne Rice.Wake up to reality.To get back to the subject:no one is perfect.We all have weak points,including vampires.

Really? Your source, please, Vampire-Love.

Stronger? Says who? And 'immortal' has varying definitions - it doesn't always mean the subject in question is impossible to kill.



Again, where's the proof of that? My idea of what the vampire doesn't suggest they're immune to bullets, and why is my word less believable than that of some creepy-arse horror author?



Known by who? You? Someone else you can name who's never seen a vampire? Live NV said, we request a source.



Someone who's clearly never played a Command & Conquer-type game, I see. Superior numbers isn't just an equalizer, it's the major deciding factor in battle. Heroes don't exist anymore, you realise, so it's all down to the quantity of your cannon fodder - and us humans breed like rabbits.



A very good point. If you think vampires are real, how can you be sure that, say, Godzilla isn't real? How about the Triffids? Or Daleks? Okay, I can see some people doubting how angry wheelie-bins with plungers could beat your precious vamps...but they're metal, you realise. Go ahead and break your fangs on their titanium hide - it won't make a difference! Ahahahaaaa! *coughs* Where was I?



*Shrugs* It's true...

Vampires stronger eh Vampire Love? Talk to the weirdos in some clubs in Birmingham who claim to be vampires, they're definately not stronger! And vampires would need to hide because humans outnumber them like a million to one if they did exist(Bring it on Lestat!).

vamps may be superior in strength, but who can walk in both the darkness and the light? so i guess in one way we are superior to them.

I think the best way is too look at the nature of war fare, resources, man power, "not needing to retreat and go to sleep when the sun rises" not to mention any number of vampire weaknesses to exploit, I can't see a bunch of vampires surviveing an aerial bombarment of Napalm, not to mention that in just a few years we americans wont even need to send humans to fight, I can't magine vampires standing much of a chance against an army of machines. and not to mention keeping the troops fed, the very thing that allowed humans, rats, and many other animals to thrive is the omnivore diet, we are not to hard to feed,but the vampires may have a little feeding problem if they exposed themselves and faught war, especially if we take the view that the more a vampire moves about the more it has to drink, so they would need human captives, and keep the human captives alive and healthy but at the same time be draining them like crazy, it just wouldn't work..

not to mention that ol-X factor, I mean I could see a bunch of vampires invadeing the Chech Republic and some one wakeing up that Gholem to run through the vampires like paper dolls.
and remember its not night time every war, whover they attack first gets the word out and those who are still in day light go on a Jhad of sorts to find every vampire still sleeping and send an attack to nuke the fallen countries out of existance.

look at some of the scottish battles for example, during there battles not only didnt they have the numbers but they also didnt have many of the warfair toys as the other countries, but they did do very well when it came to battle. yes vampires have there weak spots but so do we in many ways we have more and weaker points.and i was useing lestat as a example of how he said why should we hide we should walk fearless in the open. also im not a anne rice freak im reading my first anne rice book and im only on page 50 also i explaned myself before in order for a vampire to successfuly hunt a fully grown human and kill him he would have to be stronger, same as a lion he must be stronger and faster than his pray in order to catch it and live thats all i was saying

thier is a very big difference between Scots with swords against Brits with Cannons, and you forget ultametly the Brits won the battles.
and a fight between some super-powered freaks and the war machines we have now. a strong as a vampire is I don't see it winning a fight with a jet or a tank, and nothing can withstand Napalm weapons, "especially since fire is a vampire weakness" ultimately they would lose, in fact they would lose badly, they would slaughtered in fact, they may take out a few town or so with a surpsrise attack but in the long run they would be wiped out. they just don't have what it takes to win a real war against the world, they are far from invincible, chop off the head, piece if wood or silver through the heart, sun light, they may win against some cops but once the army moves in the vamps would be screwed.
cops use the bang bang weapons that don't hurt vampires

the army on the other hand uses boom every thing in the area is gone includeing what you were aiming at, and something tells me that something hurt by fire, as well as decapitation "which implies a ceratin percentage of body damage to destroy" wouldn't survive an explosion. and we could keep up a bombardment of a vampire infested area for nights and days, exposeing any area to escape the sun as well as wipeing them out, and thats with only conventional war fare weapons
we got some special toys we almost never get to play with that get really creative some how I don't see Vampires doing much against an AI Tank with flame throwers and laser weapons "by the way we have had these for more than a decade now, just need to find a way for the machine to tell civilian from combatant" but we are getting better at teaching them, Predator drones, "they got one with an 80' foot wingspan comeing out soon for the "war on terror" as well as self piloted Helicopters, and the Tanks may make to the battle field, Humans may be weaker than vampires, but I would like to see them fight hand to cannon with an army of mechanical drones "hell just give the UV headlights and the war is over in a week"

Don't remind me...I've still got some semblance of national pride in my cellular makeup. And last time I checked (despite my fervent wishes that this wouldn't be the case), Scotland was part of Britain.

And please, we wouldn't need napalm. That's overkill. All we'll succeed in doing is f**king up our planet more than it already has been. Just send out the Catholic Fire Engines.

Of course, I still believe that there is no special trick to killing a vampire, so I think an M-16 is better defense than a lamp or stake...but if you lot wanna go through all the mythical mumbo-jumbo, that's all in your hands.

I know its overkill, I am trying to show that vampires wouldn't stand a chance in an open conflict. and oh scotland wasn't always part of Britian, is now, thus the Brits won. I mean against vampires if chopping their head off means death than I can see a shot gun shot to the neck or head being pretty damn fatal. :lol:

yeah i know but the same rule applys to us as well so recon the odds are pretty even

Rhuen, you named all this complicated weapons of war. Take in mind that America has all of this and America still managed to kill more British soldiers than the Iraqis did during the war. And also take in mind during Vietnam the Americans were far superior there weapon wise and they got, well lets just say they lost. In fact the only war America won was Iraq, they've lost all the rest. So superior firepower isn't everything. And nuking countries would only cause a nucleur apocalypse(do you really think a country will agree to getting nuked?).

good point thankyou

uhm, Viatnam is the only war we ever lost, and that was because they knew the terrain and we went in to egotistical. I don't see Vampires as haveing a home field advantage, as for Iraq, we are forced to use kid gloves their because we don't want to hurt the civilian population, if we had intended an all out "total war" we could have wasted the whole country with out loseing any one, but we can't go all out against a mostly civivlian populise, and most the weapons I mentioned didn't exist during Viatnam times.
I would imagine a war against vampires as un-restricted war fare.

America never won any of wars when America was invaded, then there was the colonial wars etc etc. You also never won when you entered war torn Africa. But thats that. All out warfare would not work. As soon as a missile is fired every other country launches a missile, then you have them everywhere the world gets abliterated. Vampires(in most fiction etc) are quicker than humans and many can dodge bullets. And the vampires would have weapons as well, and lets be honest, would have better accuracy, many more years experiance if they chose and a quicker reaction time. And if many Americans view of winning a war is 'nuke it', I can't see them winning many wars personnaly. I'm NOT anti american by the way. I just think that Bush is thick as hell, actually Blair isn't that far behind to be fair. But enough of politics.

The first thing to remember when attempting to discuss this is that vampires are not real. They are a product of fiction, and thus you can use any arguement you wanted to and it would have to be true.

Vampires would not be beaten by humans because they are invincible, so sayeth tradition. This is correct.

Vampires would lose because they are not real. This is correct.

This is a moot point to discuss in the manner it is being discussed in. If you were to declare that it is a discussion about the fictional vampire, it would be fine.... however, most of the youth in here is discussing it as if it is a topic of reality.

Suspended disbelief is not fact.

Vampires were never written as invincible in tradition except for when depicted as Gods, so no you weren't correct. Secondly, if vampires did exist you wouldn't know about them as they would hide because they're no stupid, and no I'm not taling about the sad people who claim there vampires. So until you give proof they don't exist you're wrong there as well. Anything else you would care to preach?

I think what needs to be clarified is the type of vampires being discussed, if vampires were real than they would most likely be "pre-novel" or "Traditional Vampires" in other words walking blood sucking corpses, not stronger, not faster, not smarter than humans, infact they were actually quite pathedic, relying on hypnosis and attacking sleeping victims.

Whats wrong with relying on hypnosis? Dracula did it. Granted he was in fiction then but he is the ultimate vampire! Nah not really Lestat would kick his ass but still.

Obviously you haven't heard Sam Kinison's diatribe on Americans & War, otherwise you'd know this not to be the case. :lol:

*scratches head* Or was that George Carlin?

One of the two, anyway. :D :lol:

I was trying to point out to throne that we never lost but one war, their is difference between loseing a war, and pulling out of a conflict.

as for Africa, we pulled out because the conflict didn't meet with public approval and the current Poloticians of the time actually cared what we say, "don't expect Bush to be re-elected, that bastard has ignored the people too damn much"
also we got payed off out of Africa "we wanted Uranium and Diamonds" what ever government rules gives it too us so we don't care what they do to each other"

we are not the nicey nice planet police our government tries to display its self as, we don't go some where unless it can make us richer, or for some other alternative motive.
but this goes way off topic.

basically no matter what no type of vampire would win a war, and America wouldn't be the only army against them. they would have every army to deal with.

That's not just a scottish preference either.

:P

Two things:

1) America was part of the 'Allies' during WW2, and that means they were on the winning side, since us Brits ain't speaking Deutsch.

2) Iraq. Was. Not. A. F**king. War.


Well, at least that's one thing our two countries agree on... :P


Defending your wounded pride?

I thought Vietnam was unofficially a score-draw from the American point of view?

the vets will say we didn't lose, but I will say, we got screwed in that deal, hell we had no buissiness there, it was England and France that were haveing the war with them first and they left so Nixen being a complete dumb ass thaught we could do better.

Creature Feature, how did you prove your point? The ability to not be found is not an ability, its called 'being good at hide and seek'. And anyway, vampires, as far as I know were written as Gods once or twice, and who said Gods couldn't die? You didn't prove your point that they didn't exist either. You just claimed that they don't exit 'period' and that I was now an author who was good at story telling. I'm not saying they would win, I'm saying, this is in as simple english as I can get OK? Vampires(if they did exist) would hide from humanity so that we assumed they didn't exist(like you for instance) because if they were found out, the person who found out would be killed or us humans would go on a mass vampire killing spree, or we would say, 'Ha, vampires don't exist because they don't(like you).
And of course Iraq wasn't a war, we just declared war on them and called it 'The Second Gulf War' for fun. And in WW2 America came in at the end when victory for the Allies was inevitable. Same as in WW1.
Is everyone happy now?

Please stop posting.

You've yet again not only missed my simplistic point, you also have no logic or reason skills. Come back when you've developed the ability to concentrate on a simpistic train of thought.

If you claim they exist, you must prove so. I do not claim something that has never been seen exists, so I do not need to prove nothing. They do not exist untill you prove they do.

A declaration of war was issued against Iraq twice. That means we have been at war with Iraq twice now. Declaration of war = we were at a real war. I especially loved your logic string in "And of course Iraq wasn't a war, we just declared war on them". We declared war, but it was not a war. Brilliant!

As far as your WWI and WWII declarations, I won't even dignify that idiocy with a response further than "do some homework, kid".

Again, please stop posting.

Ever heard of the Invasion of Normandy? D-Day?

Without the help of America, Britain would have never been able to successfully drive back the German forces. (No offense to shads or any of the other Brits around here, but it's true, and hell, America couldn't have done it alone. No one could have)

first of all the americans aint that great at wars in fact they never would have won the war against iraq if it wasnt for the australians, i heard some where thaat statistics show the americans killed more of themselves than they did the iraqians even if thats how you say it, secondly why dont you prove that they dont exsist before we prove they do, because you cant be certain of something without grounded proof, do you believe in aliens, loch ness monster or big foot. did you know that the norway whale was once thought to be a myth a creature just like the vampires or the loch ness monster now you see these whales in books, documentaries, in aquatic centers, so you see just coz you never seen one doesnt mean they dont exsist. sorry about my bad grammer im in a hurry.

Umm....
America invaded? The Revolutionary War started with the British landing troops in Massachussetts, and then there was the War of 1812, also with the British landing troops in US soil.

Both resounding American victories.

And Africa? When was there a US wartime incursion into Africa?

And as far as the statements about World War II and World War I.....I side with creature feature on this. PLEASE do some research.

:rolleyes:

[U][FONT=Arial][SIZE=7][COLOR=purple]

I am nwa and you ask why vampires hide?Are you insane?who would want to walk or live near a vampire knowing that if he is hungry then you could be his food? i love them but ofcourse because i would want to be like them and not just one victim of them!get serious!i wamt be blood!

Are you kidding?

Which war in Iraq are you talking about? The first one in 1991 was a coalition of Allied forces to turn back an invasion of Kuwait. It was no single country's victory - it was a collective effort.
And as far as the second one....it's still being fought, is it not?
Even if we were to believe Bush's claim of victory in May of last year - the US brought enough personnel and firepower to defeat the Iraqi army many times over. The other forces, while helpful, were in truth unnecessary. Including the Australians.

And the claim of friendly fire? According to the casualties in AntiWar.com :

Total US deaths : 706
Iraqi Military (independent estimate) 4,895 to 6,370 #

How then do you justify saying that Americans have killed more of themselves than they have killed Iraqis?




Because what you're asking is illogical. By your reasoning, I can claim that I have four heads, and six penises, and I should be believed because you can't prove me wrong.
Logical fallacy.
It's up to me to prove my claim, as creature feature already indicated, before I'm to be believed, otherwise I will be looked upon as insane, or a damn liar.
In the same manner...you will not convince people if you refuse to prove your statements.



Nessie has always been a myth, and will REMAIN a myth until proof if presented to her existence. Same with Bigfoot. The Coelacanth was thought to be extinct until one was caught in the Indian ocean. But remember...PROOF was found of the Coelacanth. No such proof has ever been produced for Nessie. Or of vampires.

I understand the concept of faith, and of having an open mind, but the fact remains that until vampires are proven to be real beyond a shadow of a doubt, they will always be regarded as myths by the rational person.



Another lesson in using a message board. Do not write things out in a hurry...because you're more likely to make mistakes that will cost you credibility, such as your claim above of friendly fire casualties surpassing enemy fire casualties.

Also consider the fact that everyone knows that they cannot be in the sunlight. That is why they hide. Think, if every vampire was known about publically, imagine how many frightened people would go to find their coffins and take them out in the middle of the day. How much would that suck? :cofpap:

Well, at least we've found one reason why vamps hide - so they don't have to listen to idiots like us... ^_^


None taken; there's no arguing with an immutable truth.

I am not saying they do exist, I'm was trying to say that vampires MAY exist as God MAY Exist.I was trying to say that you can't make statements like 'Vampires Don't Exist' as there is no way you can back it up. There have been hundreds of thoasends of sightings, claims of vampirism worldwide, granted most may be flawed. There have been more sightings and evidence of the existance of vampires than there have been for God but more people will argue that God exists and vampires don't exist for the reason 'they just don't'.
I also thought that you would take the comment 'And of course Iraq wasn't a war, we just declared war on them" as sarcasm not literally.
And seen as you make a comment on how I 'should stop posting' then can I make the comment, Stop making comments that you simply can't back up, you can say I believe they don't exist. But not 'Vampires Don't Exist' as if it is fact. I would also like to say for the LAST TIME I am not trying to prove they exist nor do I hold the belief that they do exist, but I do not deny that they do exist as I do not deny there is a God/Goddess/Afterlife as I cannot back it up with any facts.

Christ, this kid doesn't get it. Hey kid... shaddap, you'd do yourself a favor if you just remained silent. You're batting 0.000 so far. If you stopped talking, less people would be given evidence that you're a gibbering polemic.

No, Vampires may not exist. The violate too many laws of physics, energy conservation, biology, and others. They're just fucking stories, kid, come to terms with this fact.

I can make statements such as "vampires do not exist" because to date, in the history of erect homonids, no proof that they exist has ever been found. If 2,000,000 years of erect homonid history is not a sufficient time period for you to accept that nobody has ever had even the most distant clue that vampires existed, I suggest you kill yourself. Now. The gene pool does not need you muddying the waters.

I back up my claim by my assertation that absolutely ZERO proof of their existance has ever been found, and that the only real interest in them is built off of a book barely 200 years old which is intended to be taken entirely as fiction, but whom Down's Syndrome affected youth such as yourself attempt to build into possibility or worse yet, fact.



All claims of vampire sightings are both false, and are not evidence. They are simply claims. A claim does not a thing make. If you cannot understand this simple concept, I refer you to Pier's six penis claim. He claimed it, so he must have six penises, right? No. He has no evidence, only claim. Claim is worth jack shit. That takes care of your "sightings".

Self declared vampirism is worth nada. No self declared vampire has ever been found to be a vampire. They're only losers. They're normal fucks like me and you who simply claim to be something they are not. Can you cite a single reference to a being that claimed to be a vampire and turned out that they really were one? Vampire, not person pretending to be vampire. No, you cannot. They do not exist, thus people claiming to be vampires are not vampires.

I fail to see how god's possible existance or nonexistance proves that vampires could well be real. Tidy your logic bowl up, before I change the littler, child.



What point did that sarcasm make, or what humerous idea did it make? No, you meant it, and were simply logically thrashed so now you backpedal. Silence, child.



Logic bomb for you: They do not and could not exist. They dont for multiple reasons ranging from biological to evolutionary to physics. I'm terribly sorry that your mind cannot comprehend the reasons right now, and I think the reasons are so blatant that I should not have to explain them in detail.

Please leave intellectual discussions for those better equipped to have them than yourself. Stop posting in here now, you retard.

God, I tire of these fucking retarded kids in here who think they know and understand something and want everyone to believe they're intellectually gifted, but are really just trying to ignore reality. What's the matter kid, too many people giving you wedgies at high school?

Fuck. Did I REALLY want to get unmoderated for this shit?

Wow. Arguing about vampires.

First off, look up Renfield's Syndrome. There's one form of vampire for you.

Don't you find it a bit odd that so many ancient civilizations have almost the same legends of vampires, when they basically had no contact to pass the stories on to each other. For so many different cultures to have legends on the same thing...there must be some real thing that they took it from.

How can you say that just because something isn't scientifically proven that it can't be real? Maybe it just hasn't been proven YET. It's not like we know EVERYTHING. Right? Besides...there is a hell of a lot more to existence than plain and simple science. A lot can't just simply be explained.

And why are you getting all pissy anyway? What does it matter to you whether someone believes they exist or not? You have a difference of opinion. It doesn't necessarily mean that either of you are right or wrong. You just think differently. But I don't think you're in any place to tell someone they are wrong for their beliefs or ideas.

That is all.

*sigh* Creature, Creature.....*shakes head* Don't make me do it, dear. It's already not sitting well with my breakfast. Please be nice to the children. *shakes fist* Or else!!!

As far as Renfield's Syndrome. It is NOT a form of vampire. It's a Psychological Illness. It is one such psychological illness that explains the dementia of people claiming to be vampires.

Cause...they're still human, last time I checked.


I suppose I should tell you all to get back on topic, but at least we're getting worthwhile discussion, and as it continues as such, carry on.

If it starts degenerating into flames, I'll simply close it with no explanation.

Bloody hell Creature have I missed you!!! LMFAO!

Hello everyone - I'm the nice non-believer! :devilflip:

I generally agree with what Creature has said (though in a nice way of course).

As for the worldwide spread of the myth. It is pretty obvious that blood is a key element of life. If someone sticks a sword in you, your blood pours out and you die. Similarly if you fall and hit your head on a rock, a lion attacks you or you have a haemmorage (that might not be the correct spelling!). It doesn't take long to equate loss of blood with death.

One thing that all cultures definately have are stories about monsters of all kinds. They inflict death and destruction and mayhem. Put the loss of blood together with a great story about a monster and............'Habracadabra!!!! For your personal perusal Hladies and Hgentlemen, Hi give you..One perfectly formed Hvampire!' Ey thang yao!' (The attempt at music hall introductions probably won't work for most of you but you get my meaning!?)

I'd love to say 'yes'...but I'm trying to stop lying so often.

Why would vampires want to attack us or take over?
last I checked Vampires hate feeding on animals so the only alternative would be us right and but if they bring themselves into the open sure it might be cool for a while but then what some christian nuts go and burn down any place suspected of housing vampires and turn the whole world into a christian dictator ship if I was a vampire I certainly wouldn't want to disrupt the beautiful symbiotic relationship we have I mean they kill our weak we give them food it's a win win situation aint it?
and besides for all you Anne Rice fans out there look what happened when Akasha tried to take over the world it only took like nine vampires to stop her and she was the freaking queen so if you think one fledgling=about ten of us we could easily take them out like it was nothing
all in all I dont think any vampires would want to show themselves to world like lestat did because if the elders dont agree then any rebels get burneded
peace out and banna cream pie rules!!!

Okay, back to the main point of this, though i don't mind a little off topic debate...

Hypothetically, if vampires were real:
They would hide because they are not invincible. They are completely vulnerable during the day. If they went around saying "Hey, look at me, I'm a vampire, nice to meet you!" I think they would get followed by people with torches until they were burnt into a crispy piece of undead toast.

I agree. If they weren't getting chased by people wanting to kill them, they'd probably get chased by people wanting to be turned. So, either way, hiding is probably their best bet. That is IF they did indeed exist.

Creature, I did not come to this forum to be flamed by someone who backs up their argument with 'I think the reasons are so blatant that I should not have to explain them'. If you are going to get so worked about this I suggest you stop posting for a while and calm down.

By your claims, humans know everything and anything there is to know about life and science is at its peak. When it was claimed that the Earth was round, scientists scoffed saying it defies science and can't possibly be true, when it was claimed that the Earth circled the Sun instead of the Sun circling the Earth scientists scoffed claiming it can't possibly be true. Nowdays we laugh at the scienists who scoffed at these people, we take their statements as fact. Are you getting my point or are you going to flame me some more and scoff in my face with reasons 'that are so blatant' they are not worth typing. Isn't that avoiding the subject?

Gods existance doesn't have scientific proof behind his/her existance. They are only claims but many people would bet their life on his/her existance. They would die for God/Goddess. People devote their lives to the whorship of a God/Goddess. By your claim they are all wrong as they are wasting their lives. Fair enough if that is your oppinion, but to claim it is fact is extremely close minded and ignorant. I also know many people, even some on this forum who would argue with you on this. So take it up with them. Now, do you understand this point or are you going to flame me on this as well for 'blatant reasons'?

You can flame me some more if you want, but as long as you are willing to back up your argument instead of skipping around the subject while heavily scoffing. This doesn't win arguments, it just makes you look like a close minded stuck up t*at who gets extremely worked up over some one who doesn't share the same view as you. You're going to meet a lot of people in the future who don't agree with you, what are you planning on doing? Laughing at everyone of them, because one day or another it'll be them laughing at you.

Now I guess you're going to flame me, so I'll look forward to it shall I?

I am closing this thread until Nemesis Chylde returns, and she can decide its fate.

Throne777, it would behoove you to simply accept the fact that you have been owned in this discussion and move on. I am tired of watching you beat a dead horse and keep getting flamed as a result.