So, in most stories with werewolves, the werewolves in them are hardly ever deemed as 'old'. However we know that the werewolves have normal human life spans, as they stay in human forum for most of their time. So, is the media just ignoring the fact that werewolves get old, or do you think that age or signs of it aren't shown while in werewolf form? (What I'm mainly thinking about is werewolves that would have white hair, or lessened strength and what not.)

Another possibility is that the werewolf is already strong, since he/she is mostly likely already a forest dweller, and spends time in the forest. Thus with the excercise, helps stay fit a lot longer...

So I guess the overall question is; Does age and strength of the individual correspond to the age and strength while in werewolf form? (Age as in how much the body has been worn down with time... technically the werewolf form would be just as old...)

Well, the werewolves in Underworld are immortal, but I'm not going there. <_<

I have the opinion that werewolves are not immortal, but live a lot longer than humans because their bodies regenerate during the change. So any cancers or infections are immediatly wiped out by the werewolf changeover for that one week every month.
(Women and werewolves, what is it with the lunar calendar?)
You also might attribute it to a "spiritual" connection with the forrest. Like some pagan goddess watches over the werewolves. But I think this is more of a belief that a werewolf himself would have...
...or maybe just that old hermit in the woods.

yeah, that sounds plausiable. But what's this about the one week for the change over? I though that the change was just for the one night of a full moon... Are you sort of getting at that the werewolves change (in prepreation and in recovery of) over a weeks time (3 days there, 3 days back), or that the werewolf gets limited abilities when the moon is present, but not completely full?

(and can you imagine a female werewolf who's menstrual cycle was a perfect lunar month, and was pmsing during her werewolf stage? scary.....)

have you guys seen ginger snaps? im not sure on the whole 'once changed, lasts forever' thing. I think that the whole turning only on full moon thing is far better. Nice new forum by the way...likin it ^_^

I never bought that whole "one night only" shit with the werewolf.
Then I read that many legends stretched it into a few days surrounding the full moon, since most people back then didnt know EXACTLY when the full moon was (because face it, the day before and the day after, it's kind of hard to tell).
Point is, that the same effect as the full moon is produced a few days before, as it is after.

Wolves, being nocturnal hunters, enjoy the larger moons because it grants them more visability. That's the scientific reason...

I agree with you though, a werewolf doesnt FULLY change until the night of the full moon (more powerful werewolves could pull it off a day or two early I suppose).
Also, there are many different forms of the werewolf.
Man (normal), clawed furry man, hybrid, and a wolf.
I'd expect the amount of change to follow that pattern leading up to the apex of the lunar cycle, and to move into reverse after the full moon.


PMS is Post Menstrual Syndrome, it happens AFTER the menstration.
Though it doesnt stop some girls from being a total bitch all the way through. <_<

:D hey i got a very good link about lycanthropy from a text that was written in 1875...it will take a long time to read tho...:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/goth/bow/index.htm

Wish they had that in a PDF format.
I'll have to read it when I have a free moment.

i think it depends on the kind of werewolf, the one we get the name from werewolf and its close cousin the loup-Garou from france are normal humans who use magic ointments and/or wolf skin belts or pelts to cause the change when ever, I heard in a documentary once that the majority of stuff we constitute as "werewolf" were made up for the movies. So in classic European legend form the werewolf could become a werewolf when ever they wanted to.

then their is the Greek werewolf that became a wolf for nine years straight as a curse but could become human so long as it didn't eat human meat in that time.

I rarely see anything like whats in the movies, the Windigo of America is the closest thing to the humonoid werewolf "not includeing wolf spirits which are very different than werewolves" the Windigo was a giant hairy humonoid with dagger like teeth with a taste for blood and raw meat, however a human cursed to become a Windigo "its something about hearing the Windigos scream, not getting eaten then eating the meat of your dead friends the Windigo just killed." could only fully change into a windigo during the winter nights.

aside from when the spells or when you can be cursed to become a werewolf I have never seen any other connection outside of movies that says they could only become werewolves during the full moon, I did read one legend where it was easier to change under the full moon because thats when the original ritual was done but nothing that prevented the change other days and nights of the month.

Age, I have never heard outside of books and movies of what I would call a werewolf "shapeshifting spirits and canine gods don't count in my book" that says they are immortal if anything they age just like any one else and can be hurt by anything that would kill a regular wolf they are just smarter and stronger than a normal wolf and have bigger apetites "eating a whole horse in one night by its self" but their is one legend in Middle Europe that says that a person who enchants them self in life to be a werewolf will be cursed in death to return as a vampire.

According to the research I did on werewolves, the full moon, silver, the half man-half wolf like Lon Channey was all hollywood. We have Curt Sidomac(sp?) to thank for this. In the old legends, the full moon had no effect one way or the other. The lycanthrope would change nightly into a 4 legged animal wheather he be cursed or voluntairly took on the spirit of the wolf, and silver was no more effective than lead or steel.

No. It's PRE.
Before.

Well I skimmed some of the information from the link from Lesattheblackhearted, and it seems that being able to turn into a wolf is just one part of the general skill. It seems that the people could also turn into other animals. (At least in the "The Were-Wolf in the North." Chapter)

but yeah... the website is crazy.

the werewolf is just we are familier with sense it is the common European therianthrope, however there are were-Jackals,-owls, -swans, -Hyenas,-Tigers, -Lions, -Ravens, -crows, -Leopards, -Jaguars, -Cheetahs, -Bears, -Foxes, -Snakes, -Sharks, -Manta Rays, -Turtles, -Rabbits, -Badgers, -Moles, -Hedgehogs, -cows,
-horses, -small cats, -Lynx, -Cougar, - and many more includeing reptiles and giant bugs

the real question when looking these up is disserning between the "Cursed" people and the demonic/spirit animal versions

Such as Were-Fox vs Spirit Fox

the Were-fox is more common in Eastern Europe and India and Russia as a person that through heredity can turn into a fox and whose children are born as fox kits.
and even a Saharah version that is a curse from Witches.
the spirit foxes are immortal spirit entities with a variety of powers and personalities depending on the country of Origen
Kimoho "I think thats close" as opposed to the Huli Jing, and Kitsune.
however aside from long life spans and magic illusions the other common ability is the one to take on a human form.

now aside from the Spirit/demon animals, and the Therianthropes there ia a third group where a spirit animal or God, or sorcerer makes it so an animal will turn into a human, the most well know being what is called a Wolf-were that is a wolf that by a sorcerer is made to look human. however these reversed are often hard to discern from the spirit/demon animals as they often turn themselves into humans.

hmmm, I just remembered something else. You know how werewolfs were deemed as bad and such by christianity? Well that was part of the whole shift of religions from the assorted pagan religions to christianity. (I'm not sure) but I think that the pagan religions often were associated with working with nature, and celebrating nature and whatnot. Thus, shape-shifting would fit right in.

Also in the Druids had a similar thing going. I know this is horrible... but an example is Disney's "The sword in the stone". Merlin is representing the druidic magic. (but for god's sake don't go watch it... my soph. english teacher decided to, i didn't realize how bad of a movie it really was before that)

ever read the "true" story of Little Red Riding Hood?

uhhhhhh.... nope, can't say that i have. wanna link me up?

Little Red Riding Hood

Most people are familiar with the story of Little Red Riding Hood, the young girl who walks through the deep, dark forest with a basket of godies for her grandmother. "My, what big teeth you have, Grandma!" is the line that made most folks shudder as children, for they knew that a wicked wolf had taken grandma's place under her nightcap and her blankets.

The popular nursery tale "Little Red Riding Hood" was first recorded in Perrault's "Petit Chaperon Rouge" (1697), which ends with both grandmothr and Red Riding Hood being eaten by the wolf. Later, the brothers Grimms retold the story in "Rotkappchen" and provided the happier, more familiar ending that incorporated the woodsman who rescues Red Riding Hood and frees the grandmother from the wolf's belly. We know, however, that the tale is much oldr than the literary version and that it originated far back in the oral tradition of western Europe.

What folklorists have learned of the werewolf and witchcraft traditions of Europe, they can recast the story of Little Red Riding Hood as it might have been told around the fireplace long before it was written down as a nursery tale. Witches were said to put on red caps or hoods before they went riding on their familiars to visit the magic circle deep in the woods where they could pay homage to the horned god, the Dark Woodsman. As they danced the Witches Round, the witches would be joined by vampires, werewolves, and other shapeshifitng entities, all who wished to summon the Dark Woodsman to receive his blessing.

Therefore, the ancient oral tradition of Little Red Riding Hood could well be the tale of a young initiate who wishes to become a fully accepted member of a witch cult that meets deep in the forest. She puts on a red hood, places the gifts she brings for sacrifice in her basket, and summons her familiar, a wolf, to bear her to the secret meeting in the dark forest. On the way, she encounters an older witch, an aged crone, a gandmother figure, who wishes to become a werewolf as a reward for her years of service to the cult. Later, when the Dark Woodsman appears, he grants the crone a magical wolf strap that enables her to ransform herself into a wolf whenever she wishes, and heaccepts the sacrifice of the young hooded initiate and recieves her as a member in good standing in the coven.


o.k., now I got that from "The Werewolf Book: The Encyclopedia of Shape-shifting Beings" so that is why I put the word "true" in quotations earlier. And no one else may have found that interesting, but I did.

I hear that another possible origen for werewolf beliefs may have spread when my ancestors attacked the more "peaceful" *bullshit* mediteranion peoples way back when wearinmg wolf and other animal skins and howling while they attacked, then the next day actual wolves could have moved in and finnsihed off the village and ate the dead.
There are so many different angles that could have spread the beliefs in different places, that professionals always say we will never know which if any are responsible,
I always "all the above and more are responsible"
but that is still just europe, in america there is a tribe of Native American who believe they descended from Wolf People who came out of the sea.

Another origin of the werewolf legend is in Ancient Greece. The great king Lycos grew arrogant because even the gods cam to eat in his court. One day when Zeus was over he decided to test his power over the gods. He had his children sliced, diced and cooked up for supper. But when Zeus swallowed his first bite, the evil deed was discovered. He cursed King Lycos with the shape of a wolf and a hunger for the very type of flesh he had just served Zeus. This is the reason we call werewolves, Lycanthropes.
There is also a very strong tie of werewolves in germany, I wrote a paper on the assorted Lycanthropes once, and I'll see what I can drudge up.

Addition: About the pagan to christianity change. It is vey possible, they did very similar things with the ancient gods of Rome. Venus' pentacle became the Devil's Pentagram. Neptune's Trident became Satin's pitchfork, and so on and so forth, they transformed the symbols of the olds gods into the symbols of evil. It's very possible they did the same with werewolves.

one little nit pick correction: he sliced up his son, and fed the meat to zeus as a test because by some bizare logic a god should be able to tell it is human flesh he had just eaten. of course there are multiple versions of every greek myth so we may just have different sources for the story.

No your right, it's been a while since I've read that stuff. I was speculating off of the knowledge I already had, I.E. remembering as best as I could something I had written three years ago. And when one has trouble remembering that they are getting themselves a drink when they have a gallon of milk and a glass in their hand, and are THIRSTY, it is only natural that they make mistakes in other areas of recollection as well. I apologize for this mistake.

Yet another source of werewolf myths in europe: I imagine everyone here has heard of berserkers? Berserkers were elite shock troops of dark age europe. Most units were cults dedicated to the Germanic god Woden (Odin), who delt in shape shifting. They would invoke Woden before battle, and would call the Bear spirit to posses them in combat, throwing them into a blood frenzy. they would often fight with nothing more than their weapons and Bear hides on the backs. (Berserker comes from old norse meaning bear shirt or bare chest) On to the point: their was a counterpart to the berserker called the ulfhednar (old norse for wolf head) whose totem spirit was instead the wolf. They would of course wear wolf hides into battle. This survives in the old tradition that one way to become a werewolf was to don its skin. The church obviously helped pervert these warrior traditions into the myth of the child eating werewolf, servant of satan. Their is evidence of a similar wolf warrior cult amongst the picts of ancient scotland.

hey peter i know what you mean about the movies but if you read some books about werewolves they do get old but they don't lose there strength at all except when in human form because when in human form even when they are young they are weaker then when they are in werewolf form.


sincerly darknic

I guess most Werewolves in fiction are young because wolves only live to be about eight years old in the wild (record in captivity is twenty years)....

So you average out human and wolf life expectancy (half human/half wolf) 8 + 80 (roughly) = 88...divide by two and....= 44....erm....I think that's right.

If your oldest werewolf is 44 then it's no wonder they're all quite young.....The math is of course a bit silly...It's however pretty important to ask why all werewolves don't instantly die when they become a wolf..or at least very very weak....if you're a twenty year old human..you're young. If you're a twenty year old wolf...you've been dead for years.