I'm sure we have all heard the stories about vampires not being able to cast a reflection and I just want to say that it is a bunch of bullshit. What about a vampire would not allow a mirror to cast its reflection. Anything that is corporeal casts a reflection and a vampire “even though I don’t believe in them” would have to cast a reflection because it is a corporeal being. Someone could say that maybe it’s because they don’t have a soul but I find that a little hard to believe because the last time I checked my sweater doesn’t have a soul and I can see it in the mirror just fine. So what is up with this myth, how is it even possible to believe something that is so obviously asinine?

Well mirrors (and early cameras) used silver (silver nitrate in the cameras). Vampires are seen as unpure, while silver is pure. Thus... they cannot reflect their image upon the pure object. (same reason why they go all burny next to silver, silver doesn't acknowledge them or something...)

So yeah, it's not about the soul, it's about purity.

Vampires are not pure in what sense? Sure they lack the initial goodness that supposedly humanity possesses but wouldn't that in turn make them purely evil? And furthermore what makes silver pure, if it could be refined down to 100% purity to it's atomic level I would concede that it was pure but silver nitrate is an alloy and alloys are not pure in the most literal of definitions. Sorry but I’m still not buying the myth…

The myth is based off of a couple faulty beliefs:

*Silver is a pure compound

*Vampires are impure due to their being an exhuman (considered to be good) yet they are an evil creature now (Therefore neither pure good nor pure evil)

Silver was considered a "pure" compound. I don't know why, I could look it up, but I have to go to bed soon and I'm too damn lazy.

Vampires being impure...well there ya go, I already explained that.

the myth is not suppose to be bought, it's ALL bullshit technically. (so arguing may be somewhat pointless) however we all enjoy discussing the parts of the vampire myth.

I always thought it was because the mirror is supposed to reflect the aliveness in you or somethin and vampires are already dead so therefore no reflection.

I will agree with you on that IWillFearNoEvil, you never get to really understand something unless you can argue it from both sides. I will give you credit though, I had never heard the stuff about silver *gives you 10 cool points*

Oh and LB, thanks for saying the same thing I did in your post, your redundancy was most appreciated :lol:

A corpse has a reflection and there is no "aliveness" in it...

You bastard, that pure vs impure stuff on the vampire wasn't redundant. :P :D

Yes, i understand your point Aaron. I will go with you on that one.

Crossdagger

Just because you called me out earlier I have to do it...

*enters grammar nazi mode* didn't you mean to say "vampires" instead of vampire? :D


Hey keep thinking bud, this myth has to be grounded somewhere. ;)

Sure. Research is the key.

Crossdagger

Actually no. I meant "the vampire" not "the vampires" because I'm referring to the solitary creature, not the whole "population" as a whole.

You make a shitty grammar nazi.

The mirror myth has about as much validity as garlic, holy water, running water of any sort, the crucifix, etc.

that's what i said, the whole vampire myth is crap.

<make sure not to be a spammer>

The only other thing i can think of is if the mirror has some sort of story behind it also.

Crossdagger

Actually I think I read something somewhere that stated that the whole thing with mirror wasn't mentioned in traditional vampire-lore, but it was something created by Bram Stoker when writing Dracula to emphasize that a vampire has no soul. I dunno, just something I read, probably in that huge Vampire Encyclopedia I own but yeah.

That's the best way to end posts. (no, seriously)

In a few other books (by Robert A. Heinlein) demons in general don't have souls... and then in a different book they travel through mirrors

Try uh... "Magic Inc." and "The unfortunate story of Johnathan Hoag." or something to that effect... but yeaaaah....

Well I can't help but still go with all the Christian stuff..as I'm positive, or at least I'd like to be corrected if I'm wrong, that this boundary was created by your friendly neighbourhood Bible Thumper.

If vampires are cursed by God, then they need to be reminded of it. Not seeing yourself in a mirror sure ought to take its toll on your sense of security on the cosmic scale of things..

I mean a vampire is so vile and hated by God, that by not having its reflection shown, it knows that it isn't one of God's creatures like everything else is, even a ghost, you know like some kind of realization.

Granted, all the examples I'm taking from vampire stories I've read, like in Dracula, he looks at himself in a mirror, and it suddenly shatters. It's like th world itself doesn't want to acknowledge the vampire, making sure it knows it's not a creature of God. That it's shunned and everything.

I can't actually form any kind of decent opinion as to how it reminds a vampire of it's un-pureness or why a mirror or why again it has to do with physical attributes (Garlic spreads the vampire's smell around him, and he hates to smell himself, knowing he's dead and not loved by God anymore.) but that's the ballpark I'm in...

I actually prefer the explanation of silver already mentioned, but I really don't know anything about the construction of mirrors of old...

Holy shit, that never occured to me.
A mirror would be made by polishing sliver (tin for the peasants) and placing glass over it.

However, I find more logic in the fact that a creature like a vampire is so abhorred by the earth and god, that the mirror defies the existance of the vampire, or just plain shatters.

Still dont believe it works though.

By taking the Dracula example, I'd like to think that Bram's Dracula didnt want to see himself in the mirror. Not that he couldnt, but he didnt want to, so he bent physics or just plain broke the mirror when he couldnt.
Therefore, a powerful vampire lord like Dracula, would be using invisibility as an ability, not a curse.

A very worthy explanation Saturn9.

Crossdagger

So you are saying that a vampire from lets say, "oh I don't know" Thailand would not be affected by the traditional Christian artifacts because of the cultural differences. Sounds a little off to me. I don’t see how a species would not be effected in a similar manner by the same things…

I've struck gold!

This guy has a great page and deals with Vampire themes such as Vampires having no reflection etc:

http://www.zyworld.com/vampirelore/Themes4.htm

I reckon the whole 'no reflection' thing must be a sack of shit. Otherwise there's no way that cool vampires like Lestat and Angel would ever get their hair & makeup looking so good.

Yeah how would they if they couldn't see themselves?


Crossdagger

HEY crossdanger, nice of you to join us. you left me hanging on what the address of the pictures was in this topic.

(sry to everyone else, but he can't receive pms yet...)

I'm really sorry about that. :( I just got really busy with my band and stuff. Sorry dude :(


Crossdagger

yeah no prob, i was just being a bit silly

but, do you have the address?

Sorry i can't remember, was it the exact address of the picture itself that you wanted? Sorry again.


Crossdagger

if so i can look again and get it tonight.


Crossdagger

I'm lookin right now ok.


Crossdagger

(oop- yeah exact address. thanks)

I checked under october 4th and didn't find it so i really don't know. If you want me to search more days then tell me what days and i'll search.


Crossdagger

nah, only if you want to... i was figuring that since you had already found it once, it'd be easier to find again.

I hate that, i'm really sorry about that. :(


Crossdagger

Can you say 'Off-Topic'?

AHHA! :lol: I'm sorry I know it's past conversation (get with the program an all that...) But I was thinking the exacty same thing when I was reading this and it's true! Vampires always appear perfect! From their hair and makeup to their facial expressions. I mean come on! There's no way you can come out like that without spending hours in front of a mirror. I don't know about you guys, but when I wake up in the morning (well...Late afternoon actually ^_^ ) I look like I've just stepped out of hell. I seriously doubt that being a vampire makes that much difference. :D

well we humans will toss and turn in our sleep, wake up, go back to sleep after moving around and thus screwing up our hair even more.

now vampires, they just sleep like the dead.

Hehe u crack me up. Funny.

But still.. are u gonna tell me that a vampire can go to sleep and wake up in the evening without a hair or an eyelash out of place?
And they're not exactly gonna wear the same outfit every day! And what if they wanted to change their look?
Its a little hard to style your hair for the first time without a reflection. Or do your make up. And with the amount of black eyeliner every styilized vampire seems to go thru there's no way it doesn't smudge!

Heh...I'm not obcessed....I swear. :D

Well, according to Anne Rice that's because when a vampire sleeps their body returns itself to the way it looked when it died. So if you died with good hair, then you'll wake up with good hair for all eternity.

well hair is dead folocles any way and if they can repair there dead tissue from almost anything than I suppose that death repair would also apply to their hair.

hehe, that reminds me of Spike. he's so dirty, when he gets up he just grabs his one pair of pants and puts them on.

I look in the mirror and ...

:huh:

Looks normal to me!

I don't do my hair looking in the mirror anyway.

A mirror is just a vanity thing anyway.

I look so good, why do I want to mess up my natural beauty anyway???

Your're so vain, you probly think this is about you, don't you?

.....riigghtt. okthen. :huh:



anyway..
So it's like an extreme version of when the wind changes then. If you die with bad hair and bad make up ure stuck with it. Ouch. No thanx. I prefer to think that they can change their appearances if they want to and I deffinately prefer to think they can do that with the use of a mirror. I mean even if they don't need it, it just doesn't make sense that they wouldn't have a reflection. They still have a body...Even if the bloody thing doesn't change. :P

An yeah actually it is a little disturbing how he only has one pair of pants... ewww I don't want to think about it.

Let's think about this one...

Why do werewolves die from silver bullets? Why do so many people believe witches fly on brooms? What's with dragons breathing fire?

Basically, "why do vampires have no reflections?" is just another question to add to my "Purely Stupid Fantastical Questions to Ask" list. Sure, the history of it might be interesting, but why _debate_ it when vampires are fictional and therefore have no specific rules to follow?

This thread really shouldn't exist.

Y'know, that eternal body thing sounds good. When you're Liam. Or Angel, or Angelus, or any of the four personalities that inhabit that absolutely gorgeous body. Yes, four. Neither of the previously named three could shut those lawyers in a room with two vampires! Well, Angelus could, but he'd be one of the vampires, and he wouldn't walk away, he'd go in. So... Yeah.

And as for my own opinion beyond my previous post? I think the anti-reflection thing is fun. It'd be cool to look in the mirror, see nothing, then turn around and boom! Vampire behind you. Well, actually, it'd be freaky, but I wouldn't be adverse to it if it were Angel or ensouled Spike. Actually, I'd prefer Angel, but I'll take what I can get.

Onto the off-topic subject of Angel, he fought like... the devil... in "You're Welcome"! And he's awesome when he's with Lindsey! If they've taken Evil Lawyer Boy off the show for good, I'ma gonna hunt Joss down and kill him! And drink his blood, because I went on this huge cut-my-finger-then-drink-the-blood spree, and I decided that blood tasted good. I only stopped because my fingers started to hurt. ^^;;

Actually, I wouldn't, because that'd be horrible. There'd be no more ANGEL: the Series! -dies of horror and looks happily at her ANGEL season one, two, and three box sets-

Ya know, I would swear that you were a fan of Angel Misu...

*Puts on his Sherlock Holmes deerstalker hat & wanders off*

It does tend to hurt if you cut yourself honey.

Nah I don't think she's a fan Shadout. What ever gave you that idea? Hehe. :rolleyes: :D

when did this topic go from not seeing in a mirror to ANGEL the series? the only reason angel or spike or any other actor looks so good is not because of a mirror but fifty make-up and hair people! so if you think about it angel, spike, and whoever don't need a mirror to make them look good just a crap load of people. back to the topic, earlier posts said "vampires are impure" well humans are not the purest thing either, but we can still see our reflection. and one more thing biblical statments say "your blood is your soul" a sweater never had blood running threw it so it never had a soul, and a corpse isn't moving talking or thinking so it is different from a vampire. a vampire had a soul but now it is lost but still moves talks thinks and does other things that is why i think it cant cast a reflection because it is like a ghost. :devilflip:

Hi all, my name is Goldiependle and I've just stumbled onto this site and topic. Firstly let me say that although I don't believe that vampires truly exist I think it's an interesting thing to discuss...

Anyway back on topic, if the theory of a vampire not being able to see its reflection in a mirror bacause of the silver content were true, what would stop him/her from seeking its reflection in a body of water, a window or something else reflective?

I'm sorry if this has already been brought up, but I wasn't sure...

Goldie